[1saxman]

Here's a place with all the treatments for brass and other metals.

Chemical Patinas Products | Create Metal Patinas | Triple-S Chemicals

 

[J-Moen]

Here's a place with all the treatments for brass and other metals.

Chemical Patinas Products | Create Metal Patinas | Triple-S Chemicals

Another site full of patina agents! Nice to see that they have pictures of the final product on most of them as well.

However, there was no direct blue like my current test will be exploring, and i'll be posting pictures of all my results and products used for anyone interested in different products and sources of patinas

 

[saxoclese]

I don't know if this will help or not, but in my experience the patina "takes to" the brass much better if it is spotlessly clean---much like electroplating. Going over the brass with a 3M abrasive pad or steel wool and then wiping it with alcohol usually does the trick. Something else I have done that works to speed up the chemical reaction is to heat the patina solution, or the part to be treated---or both. This is a YAS-21 my shop apprentice overhauled with a brushed brass finish. Adding a protective layer of Renaissance Wax turned the brass a darker color without using any other patina chemicals.

 

[J-Moen]

Thanks Saxoclese! That is very helpful. This brass is spotless - brand new, in a sealed package per strip and I usually give it a decent polish with cloth to ensure their is no residue on them. I may have to clean them more as you said though.

I'm still awaiting the package with the Blue Patina Agent which is now 2 hours late... And I watched the delivery guy drive by my house who has the package (according to the GPS tracking).

Hoping to get that test started soon (although I'm beginning to question if the driver is ever coming).

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: My Blue Patina Agent arrives!

Looks nice, and instructions are for the paint! So here is the brass strip for test number 3:

I've soaked it in the substance, and which you can see here:

And it appears to be working well already. Pictures soon!

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: Blue Patina Agent seems to be working wonderfully - although not as covering as I would like. Here's the result of the paper towel soak:

Since I was hoping to get this even more prominent, we are going for a 1 hour soak!

 

[J-Moen]

I fell asleep last night, and am working all morning - so hopefully the brass is developing a nice even blue patina while I'm sitting here. Pictures later today!

 

[saxoclese]

Thanks Saxoclese! That is very helpful. This brass is spotless - brand new, in a sealed package per strip and I usually give it a decent polish with cloth to ensure their is no residue on them. I may have to clean them more as you said though.

Perhaps I should have said the surface needs to be "etched" rather than "clean" to produce a more even patina finish. I have not had much success on brass that has been buffed to a high shine.

 

[J-Moen]

Perhaps I should have said the surface needs to be "etched" rather than "clean" to produce a more even patina finish. I have not had much success on brass that has been buffed to a high shine.

Ah I see - that makes sense in my mind. scratching the polished surface off and allowing the chemical to reach into the subtle scratches should allow it to react more (at least it makes sense to my non-scientific brain).

I'm excited to see these results when I get home though! I think I'm going to have something fairly substantial on the surface from this new patina agent. And the best part? It doesn't STINK

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: Here are the results of the 1 hour soak!

Getting lots more colors! Very nice results, but I was hoping for more! Soooo back in for a 3 hour soak this time.

After that, I'll begin phase two - seeing how much work it is to clean off!

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: After 3 hours of soaking, and 3 hours of sitting out, here is what I am getting for a patina!

Lots of green/blue from this stuff. A little chalkier than I was hoping. Definitely still intriguing! I'm going to polish it a bit and see how it looks tomorrow. Then I'll clean it up

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: First attempt at cleaning off the patina. I used some brasso, workshop yowels and a polishing cloth and achieve decent results. A small polisher would probably make this look brand new.

There is some red staining still present, but I am happy to report it didn't take more than a couple minutes to clean this small surface to this level

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: I reapplied a coat of this lightly brushed on both sides, the less-colorful of the two sides was the one which was rested on the paper towel. I then polished it up with some microcrystalline wax, and really enjoy this look!

This has been lot of fun! Still awaiting delivery of my Gold and Green agents from Jax company (delayed due to weather).

I will see if the polish makes it any harder to remove for the next test. I am considering doing a small area of this color on my horn,, like the inside of the bell, or neck, or keywork even. Will make more decisions after my other agents arrive!

 

[Dr G]

I am considering doing a small area of this color on my horn,, like the inside of the bell, or neck, or keywork even. Will make more decisions after my other agents arrive!

Keep it away from surfaces that are part of a close fit - tube/post, for instance. The reactants are low density products, and will fill close-fitting assemblies enough to make them bind. If you produce reactants, and then remove them, you add space to previously close-fitting interfaces. Either result is unwelcome if you like a well-fit mechanism. If you don’t care, then please ignore all this with impunity.

 

[J-Moen]

Keep it away from surfaces that are part of a close fit - tube/post, for instance. The reactants are low density products, and will fill close-fitting assemblies enough to make them bind. If you produce reactants, and then remove them, you add space to previously close-fitting interfaces. Either result is unwelcome if you like a well-fit mechanism. If you don’t care, then please ignore all this with impunity.

Oh yes that makes a lot of sense! I hadn't considered that, but it could definitely bind up some keys pretty quick, given that it does indeed add to it's surface. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: My new chemical agents arrived today! Testing both on two separate pieces of raw brass. Very excited to see the results! Here is the brass pre-solution.

And here is the first layer of application. Should only be an hour before I have results - as per the instructions. Top is green, bottom is Gold.

 

[J-Moen]

UPDATE: Oh Man this stuff works - and quick! Here are the results from one hour of the material on! The gold is a little darker than I would like, which actually is from leaving it on too long. I can see where this one will take some finesse to get the honey gold I was looking for. But it does look pretty good! Better in person than my grainy photo.

The green is also very nice, and quick. That was very thin layer that worked wonderfully! This is a little brighter than the other blue I used, but they are very similar in color.

And here is all three of my patina agents side by side. Left is the Gold Jax Company Patina Agent (with some polish overtop, i think it looks great!). Next is the Modern Masters Blue Patina Agent (with polish), and bottom is the Green Jax Company Patina Agent (no polish, as this one still needs to finish drying completely, as I accidentally smeared it a bit when I went to check).

 

[saxoclese]

I use the JAX Gold primarily to do "touch up" after cleaning up an area that has been soldered on saxes with a darker gold lacquer finish. I have found that a 50:50 mix of JAX and distilled water gives me more control over the shade. Full strength it can come out a bit orange. I have also found that using a rubber glove and applying the JAX with a piece of 0000 steel wool soaked in the solution gives the most even result. The photos below show an example.

 

[J-Moen]

I use the JAX Gold primarily to do "touch up" after cleaning up an area that has been soldered on saxes with a darker gold lacquer finish. I have found that a 50:50 mix of JAX and distilled water gives me more control over the shade. Full strength it can come out a bit orange. I have also found that using a rubber glove and applying the JAX with a piece of 0000 steel wool soaked in the solution gives the most even result. The photos below show an example.

View attachment 100465

That is very good! You've definitely perfect your ability to match it! I was actually looking for a fair bit darker than the gold lacquer - Something close to what I had now, but not quite as orange... Intention to see if I can match the Ref 54 Honey Lacquer as best I can. So maybe a 80 agent/20 water mixture would work well for me? I'll also have to invest in some 0000 steel wool for applications too!

Tonight I'm actually going to see if I can remove the finishes with some cleaner. And Then my plan is to clean up the metal as best I can, and reapply the Gold and Green. For the goId agent, My plan was going to be to let it set on for a shorter time instead of mixing. But after saxoclese advice, I'll do half of the metal in shorter time, and the other half in the mixture of 80/20. For the Green, I want to see if I can get it to evenly cover the brass with no spotting.

 

[turf3]

I'd make three comments.

1) Try fuming rather than immersion; I think you'll get a more even coverage.
2) I had good success in the past with regular old household ammonia cleaner, suspending parts on a wire above it in a closed can.
3) Clean, clean, clean. I use acetone when real cleanliness is needed.