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Discussion Starter #1
I’d like to find a few willing subjects to test a ligature and then send it on for further assessment to the next subject.

Here is the deal:

I have created the new Sonifier Ligature for HR tenor (only) mouthpieces. Here are some of the features and aspects of it:

Made with critical metallurgical characteristics and properties (1)
Design included consultation with various experts in sonics and physics(2)
Developed over many years, using extensive research and testing methods (3)
Tested and shown to have significant improvement in playability for most mouthpiece/reed setups(4)

Notes (a/k/a fine print):
1- Well, not really true
2- I actually don’t know if “sonics” is a word
3- I’m too lazy to do years of research on anything, so yeah, not true either. I don’t have any test equipment – (I do have a couple of cheap plastic tuners….does that count?)
4- I did test this on a number of mouthpieces and set ups (2 to be exact)


OK well here is the real deal.

I did a modification on your basic two screw tenor ligature using brass metal strips. I think it is a great design and sort of takes off on the Bonade and Optimum concepts. I have an Optimum and, subjective power of suggestion and “confirmation bias” aside (!?:bluewink:), I think it’s better. I even have a hair-brained reason why I think its better, but I definitely won’t go into any semantics of how or why it may be better. I just thought it did work better—primarily I think in feedback to me the player; and that’s all I’ll say. I don't have a Bonade, but the last one I bought was defective so I didn't buy another.

So I’d like to send one to some folks. Here is a twist,…if by chance you really love it, you can buy it for $20. by pers check, or $22. via paypal, and I’ll send another to the next person in line. If it’s a big zero to you, that’s A OK with me. And of course, any feedback, impressions, laughter, derision, or expressions of joyous holy grail-reaching are all welcome from each tester.

I would ask that if you sign on, you agree to turn it around after 10 days of receiving it… meaning play test it and get it shipped to the next person in the list. You'd have to foot the cost of the shipping to the next person-- should be pretty light eh?

Photos' won't really show much - I have a lame camera. So a small leap of no-cost/low-cost faith is required.

Anyone interested? Generally, those who are sort of "into this kind of thing" are better candidates to participate, but all are welcome, with the above caveat about turnaround time.

HF
 

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Thanks for signing me up. Im interested in seeing what you have come up with.

Love the ad...funny as hell.

The only thing you left out was cryogenic treatments....is that an extra option?

Seriously though, I look forward to giving it a test run

Phil
 

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Let me say first I am the guilty party holding this up this passaround and I am sincerely sorry to all of you and to High Fly.

That being said let me share my thoughts about these ligs:

High Fly has done a solid job making ligs that perform well and tonally stand ligs over 3 times their price. I received them with a letter and in this letter he acknowledges the need to continue to address the finish of the final product. I have to agree. There has to be a more and clean way to get the bars that are very Jean Marc like installed on the ligature. That being said, performance wise they stand up to both my Jean Marc lig, FL Ultimate, and FL Pure brass. I would say that places him in pretty good company.

I favored what he labeled as Ligature B. For those who know ligs this is basically a flipped over Jean Marc type double bar design. The bars make contact with the reed lengthwise on the edges. The bars are on the screw side of this sample lig whereas Jean Marc places them on the opposite side of the ligature. I have to say that if you handed me my horn with Lig B and changed it up several times with a Jean Marc I would have no idea which was which. On the flip side the Jean Marc is made very well. Im not 100 percent sure how High Fly is attaching the bars and in the long run that concerns me. Id like to hear from Hi Fly on that issue. If they are durable they are a steal at 20 bucks.

Ligature A was fine too. It had bars of a smaller diameter. I favored Lig B with the big bars as I found the sound more resonant and the response a little quicker. Lig A had a slight dampening effect. One benefit was it rounded out the low end of the horn rather nicely. Personally, Id rather have the full punch and power of a setup and alter reeds or mouthpiece than using a lig that has dampening properties. Then again, I can adjust my mouthpiece all day if I want...every player cant. So Lig A does have its place.

Back to Lig B. like I stated, if you put on an ultimate lig or a J. Marc lig or this one I dont think the difference is significant. One thing I did notice is that this lig is brighter than the FL Pure Brass model. The Pure Brass and Lig A with the small rails were the two darkest ligs. The other three were about the same across the board.

In closing. I will reiterate in summary my final thoughts. Lig B with the big bars is a a fantastic lig at a steal of a price IF it is durable. We need to hear from Hi Fly on that issue. It looks like adhesive is all that holds the bars. If I am right it concerns me and Id suggest finding alternate methods...even if it makes the lig cost more. The performance level this lig provides offers some pricing headroom. If it takes 5 more bucks to insure long term durability then charge it. You have made a very good lig in my opinion.

Thank you again for the opportunity.

Phil
 

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Please add me to the list!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hello--just back from waaay away.

Thanks for the thoughtful and positive, neutral, and so far not much negative feed back!

re the pass around, I think the status is something like:

Sigmund-Phil and Simon Sax have done some good play testing.

Phils feedback is there and Simon talked on the phone to me about preliminaries, and he may well be posting his impressions soon.

Both should be about ready to mail out to Bryoned and dogster, whose addresses I belive both Phil and Simon have already for the forwarding. If not, let me know

Mark R should be the next recipient as soon as Bryon or dog are done.

I included short notes in each which if you could include in the forward would be great.
Basically, there are two versions(both tenor for now). one with larger contact bars/(slightly) larger diameter and one with smaller bars and are marked A / B (or at least on phils pair they are).

I do know about the possible long term durability and I have a plan to improve it; so far only MY prototypes have had problems.. hopefully the ones out there are OK still

If anyone is itching for a clarinet or alto version let me know.

one note (or is that an overtone?) is that Im in a crunch for a big project deadline for the next two weeks so things may stay slowed down till then

Bil
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Phil

Thanks again for your very complete and thoughtful response.

If you and Simon are squarely in the "the ligs are good/OK/nice" kind of camp, that's what I had to hear before investing more in the process of making them right /assembling them better.

One or two notes to your observations:

the location of the bars which you noted as along the edge is important. I wouldnt call them "along the edge" but more like at the 1/4 and 3/4 marks across the width of the vamp. The Optimum with the bar pattern plate was too close to each other and too close to the center I thought; sort of at the 3/8 and 5/8 marks across? I think that might be part of the story as to why they work. being too 'high' on the curve didn't allow a nice equalized "squeeze" by the point of contact.

The larger bars may help the "bands" of the lig body itself, "clear" the edge of your reed so that there is no other contact... I can't be sure on that. Also that the slightly larger diameter makes a smaller footprint? ... I can't really say
as to why they're different as you noted. Simon noted that it causes and small 'trench' if you will along were it seats on the reed.. I don't think that should be a problem. It very shallow and may actually help?

I found the larger diameter a bit more awkward to place or locate on the vamp before tightening, but nothing you wouldn't get knack for.

as far as reverse screw or traditional, Im just working with both for now as I think the overall design consideration sort of trumps that as a variable.

Anyway, thanks much again for your time and in put.

all for now,
Bill
Let me say first I am the guilty party holding this up this passaround and I am sincerely sorry to all of you and to High Fly.

That being said let me share my thoughts about these ligs:

High Fly has done a solid job making ligs that perform well and tonally stand ligs over 3 times their price. I received them with a letter and in this letter he acknowledges the need to continue to address the finish of the final product. I have to agree. There has to be a more and clean way to get the bars that are very Jean Marc like installed on the ligature. That being said, performance wise they stand up to both my Jean Marc lig, FL Ultimate, and FL Pure brass. I would say that places him in pretty good company.

I favored what he labeled as Ligature B. For those who know ligs this is basically a flipped over Jean Marc type double bar design. The bars make contact with the reed lengthwise on the edges. The bars are on the screw side of this sample lig whereas Jean Marc places them on the opposite side of the ligature. I have to say that if you handed me my horn with Lig B and changed it up several times with a Jean Marc I would have no idea which was which. On the flip side the Jean Marc is made very well. Im not 100 percent sure how High Fly is attaching the bars and in the long run that concerns me. Id like to hear from Hi Fly on that issue. If they are durable they are a steal at 20 bucks.

Ligature A was fine too. It had bars of a smaller diameter. I favored Lig B with the big bars as I found the sound more resonant and the response a little quicker. Lig A had a slight dampening effect. One benefit was it rounded out the low end of the horn rather nicely. Personally, Id rather have the full punch and power of a setup and alter reeds or mouthpiece than using a lig that has dampening properties. Then again, I can adjust my mouthpiece all day if I want...every player cant. So Lig A does have its place.

Back to Lig B. like I stated, if you put on an ultimate lig or a J. Marc lig or this one I dont think the difference is significant. One thing I did notice is that this lig is brighter than the FL Pure Brass model. The Pure Brass and Lig A with the small rails were the two darkest ligs. The other three were about the same across the board.

In closing. I will reiterate in summary my final thoughts. Lig B with the big bars is a a fantastic lig at a steal of a price IF it is durable. We need to hear from Hi Fly on that issue. It looks like adhesive is all that holds the bars. If I am right it concerns me and Id suggest finding alternate methods...even if it makes the lig cost more. The performance level this lig provides offers some pricing headroom. If it takes 5 more bucks to insure long term durability then charge it. You have made a very good lig in my opinion.

Thank you again for the opportunity.

Phil
 

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I didnt find the big bar piece to be tricky to center on the reed at all. It was really fast and easy. Keep in mind Ive used the Ultimate Lig from FL for a log time. There probably isnt a much more cumbersome setup. I found it as easy to center on the piece as the Jean Marc. I liked the lig. If it the bars were connected in another manner and if I need a lig (I think I have a box full) I would buy it.
 

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Where do I send these next. BTW nice job, I tend to agree with what Phil (Sigmund451) has to say. So I need an address and these are off on Monday. Hi Fly, I will pm you more of my thoughts later. Thanks, I enjoyed the process and the ligs!
 

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High fly...let all members of the passaround know your name and address. I put my return address on the one I mailed as I could not clearly read the packag. It's wise for your return address to always be on the box in case of problems with the mail
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks again to all for getting in on this and your feedback.

At this point there is only one person waiting in the passaround sequence. So, I've asked DT of Florida to send it on to MR of Miss. So Bryon you can hold onto them if you don't mind, until there is another taker for the pass around.

What is missing is feedback or comments on the thread here. So, long or short, eloquent or vague, pithy or cliche'd your comments are greatly desired here on the thread. Guys, you know who you are... should'nt take more than 7.5 minutes.

look for my address in PM

HF
BT
 

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Ok...I'm here with the results. So sorry it took me a minute to get to this. It's funny how much more fun it is to play test the ligatures than write about them:) Either way I had a strong impression and I want to share it really quick.

First of all a big thanks goes out to High Fly! Not only are his ligatures really quite nice, but he is a pleasant guy to deal with and I even got to talk on the phone with him a bit!

Ok...on to the Ligs. My findings were very interesting. I play tested both ligatures he sent me on multiple mouthpieces (multiple tip openings), w/ multiple reeds (strengths) and against one other ligature that I enjoy on hard rubber pieces (a "T" stamp vintage link lig). I must say that I got some surprising results. I definitely enjoyed the Lig with the fatter bars more. I also enjoyed the one with smaller bars, but I felt it didn't have as much of an impact on the response and resonance as the other one. I also found that I enjoyed High Flys ligs more on smaller tip mouthpieces (.085 - .095). When I tested the lig on some of my smaller tip pieces it really opened up the sound, resonance and response wise, compared to the Otto Link lig. It was noticeably different in the upper and lower registers (as in even my wife could tell). That being said I didn't enjoy the lig as much on my more open tipped pieces. I played it on my Personaline .110 and my Gregory .105 and I liked the Otto Link lig better. I felt that High Flys lig accented the high over tones more on the larger tips thus creating a "brighter" tone, which I don't dig. It definitely still impacted the response and resonance of these open tip pieces (in a positive way), but I couldn't get past the high overtone thing.

I also concur with Phil about the construction. I think possibly soldering the bars in, instead of holding them on with the glue would be better. Although I don't know how possible that is! I also think rounding off the edges of the bars would help as they tended to dig into my reed pretty bad. But overall I knew that High Fly was still working on the final product and I can't complain!

In conclusion: I strongly believe that this lig holds up to others I have had (Vandoren Master, Optimum, FL Ultimate, Pure Brass etc...). Although it wasn't my cup of tea on the more open pieces I could see other guys really digging it. If I was playing a smaller tip I would have kept it for sure! Thanks again High Fly! People should sign up for the pass around as it is a great experience to get to experiment with great ligatures!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
All,
I believe I have a fix for the potential weakness of the design, with regard to the epoxy adhesive.

I'd like to get a couple more testers If no one is interested I'll ask for them all back from the last two testers in a week.Then I'll revamp and road test them with the fix.

After that maybe I'll get the Madison Ave marketing machine in motion. That means, I'll put them up for sale here. This is going to be BIG,,, I mean BIGGER than BIG.

Reviewers: reviews needed.

All for now.

I have to go source my next supply of rare precious metals to be included in the proprietary blend used in the special sound bars......yeah, that's it. Thats what makes them work so well. That and the super annealing, deep freeze process that each one goes through. OK, OK, but it does sound good, no?

BT
 

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I am still waiting for one of the pass a rounds to come my way. Feel free to email me for my shipping address [email protected] if that is what is holding things up.

Thanks, Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Dogster,

I believe your holding the most recent rotation, as of about 2 weeks or so ago. Please send to Mark R if youre done testing or send out if you don't have time to. I'd like to keep this moving along.

Bryoned, you have a couple still which are on hold. If there are any other interested parties, please check in here. So far the feedback has been very good. Ive improved on the build process and feel confident that they're ready for prime time. I road testing two with the 'fat' bars now and will be doing clarinet versions upon request.

If anyone wants one, please let me know and I'll send it out. Tenor only at this point but if you want alto I'll work on that as well.

HF
BT
I am still waiting for one of the pass a rounds to come my way. Feel free to email me for my shipping address [email protected] if that is what is holding things up.

Thanks, Mark
 
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