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P Mauriat 86UL Tenor Saxophone review,
With reference to the System 76, Mark 6, PMXT 66 and Conn 10M
By Roger Manins
www.rogermanins.com
About a year or so, I did a review of the System 76 Tenor. After extensive research, testing, gigs, recordings, tours on the 86UL Tenor, I now feel ready to give a comprehensive report of this fine horn.
When I first came across P Mauriat horns, I was happy with my lot. At the time I was on a much-loved Conn 10M, and still sometimes used of my Selmer Mark 6, which I had previously used for 20 years or so. However when I tried the P Mauriat horns, I was so impressed with the evenness, intonation, build, feel, price and sound of these horns that I was keen to endorse the product. Between the 76 and 66, I chose the 76. You can read this review, and my review of the 67UL alto by going to
http://www.pmauriatmusic.com and looking under my artist profile "Roger Manins". I also posted it on Sax on the Web but can't find it now!!
As I was still very keen on the 10 M, I had a non-exclusive agreement with P Mauriat. I was right behind the horns, and the ethos of the company, but as an artist, I needed the freedom to play what was right for me on a gig/ recording. This usually worked at half /half depending where or what I was playing. I also have 2 X fine mark 6 Tenors, which have been under the bed since then-not because the 76 is better than a 6. I say in my review there are improvements, and yes there are, but a killer horn will always be a killer horn. Also improvements are usually made at the expense of something else (I.e. bigger sound = less focus,). Every time I play the 66, I am amazed at its HUGE sound and evenness, but with my open set up (at the time Otto link9# with a 4 reed), I found that the more focused 76 with the more centered sound directed the flow better.
Compared with the 10 M, with my set up, the 66 was just that bit TOO much for me-and I thought it did not have the character of the 10 M. Don't get me wrong I would go so far to say that as a saxophone, and in the context of saxophone evolution, the 66 is probably the best horn I have ever played, but you have to find what is right for you.
When the 86UL came along, I took a risk and ordered one to sell on consignment in NZ from P Mauriat, and at the same time test it. What a learning curve. You know-I was totally happy before P Mauriat came along, and then I was suddenly in a " Sax Quest" (Good name guys!). The process of changing horns for me, really, I have to say, this has been a total pain in the *** experience. The old saying " If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind-then the human response " but these horns are so good!!" Damn!!!
So being a human, I spent the next and a bit year swapping, sweating, cursing, doing saxophone comparisons with any poor victim that would care to listen, changing reeds, recording, choosing…. between the 76, mark 6, 66, 10 M. Then the 86 came into the mix. It had something that I wanted. Really for the first time, I was able to play a horn against my Conn 10 M- That free blowing beauty, and hear and feel qualities that took what it had, and left it behind. To me the 86 is neither French sounding, nor American sounding. I have said to a few people" Its in between!!"-But I am not sure that's true either (in retrospect). To me-and I think I am right, the 76 is from the mark 6, and the 66/67 from the Conn/ American big sounding horns.
The 86 has the bigness of the 66- but not as broad, or in your face, and not as refined or silky smooth as the 76. The 86 has a bit of vintage Martin in it I think. You know those old martins have that dark warmth. The 86 has this and more-it still has the aggressive bite to it, flawless intonation etc, but a very very rich, dark, brooding compelling sound. It has more resistance than the 66-It's a little bit harder to blow. I think you have to work a little harder to get what you get. In this regard it is similar to the 76. Check out the following links and see if you can hear the difference between the Conn 10m on an Up temp rhythm changes, and the 76 on a up tempo blues
Conn 10 m --- Roger Manins Rhythm changes solo (9# Otto link HR)
System 76-Roger Manins blues solo (9# Otto link HR)
At this stage I don't have any "burning" stuff on the 86, but in the below comparison you can get an idea of the difference between 66R and 86UL. Also, on my you tube site there are plenty of other comparisons- Magnum vs. super 6 necks-and OK! my humorous look at smooth jazz playing ( now for the record I have a tonne of respect for the great players in this genre, but laughing is good, and I will be bagging out plenty of others in time!)
86UL vs. 66R-( Jodi Jazz HR 10# mouthpiece)
Below are some more audio files, free to download, or play on line, of Conn 10M and my Mark 6 Selmer
Conn 10M: Pennies from Heaven, Don't get around much, and End of a love affair
Selmer Mark 6: Falling in love with love, Love letters, Without A Song. Beatrice, Blues in the closet, Easy living
http://www.rogermanins.com /downloads.html
Now back to my review. I found that the 86 needed something, and after some thought I realized I need to try a few mouthpieces out. Now here I want to say something-I hate changing mouthpieces. I had been playing a 9# Otto link for 10 years solid, and the piece before that (Berg Larson HR 130M) a good 7 years. You see-the 9# link worked well on the Conn, mk 6 and the 76-and good on the 86 (but not great)-but I was "hearing" that I needed something to bring out the richness of the horn more. The horn needed something a little brighter, bigger and better. I am an ex student of George Garzone's, and was intrigued with his involvement with Jodi Jazz-and love his sound, so I ordered a Jodi Jazz HR 10#. This particular one I have is a darker sounding version than the stock Jodi 10#- but still a little more edgy than the Link-The mouthpiece on the 86 was perfect, but a hard set up to play. In order to get over this, I have been doing a lot of chop building long tones - quiet and LONG! This piece does require more chop strength to play, and I do not recommend it (I would highly recommend the 8*) You also really need your breathing and posture to be spot on, as this really is a mouthpiece for an experienced player.
BUT-now here is the thing!! With this mouthpiece, and this stunning horn, I feel closest I have ever come to realizing that sound in my head. I absolutely love playing the horn. It is chocolate-gorgeous. Also with 6 weeks of long tones behind me, I can take it!
Criticisms of the 86 Tenor
If your technique is good
Palm Keys-Eb too high, D a little low. I think this goes beyond personal preference, as the palm Eb gets in the way. Going from a Bisk key Bb to a palm key Eb there is too much movement needed-a waste of energy, and diminishing effectiveness of technique. The Eb key also gets in the way of the low Bb
Alt F key-Too smooth/ small-Needs to be a little chunkier in order for altissimo chromatic runs to feel solid. Generally altissimo comfort needs a re think in horns in general. I find the side keys (Bb, alt C) a little low too-this however I guess is personal preference but, chromatic altissimo runs is advanced stuff and saxophone design needs to pay a little more attention to this-Like design it like it would suite someone who only played up there.
Hi F#-- Now this could be horn set up, but the Pre F# key, F# fingering - i.e., not using the F# key provided, is not as clear as in other horns. I am wondering if when the horn is designed, they all assume we want to play that horrible F# key. This is good for certain things, but hopeless for chromatic runs. You have to use the old fingering for best results, and the old fingering does not seem to work as well. Interesting too, the F# key provided does not really sound to my liking either.
PS- My above comments could be argued as personal preference, hand size etc, but I do not have any complaints regarding the key heights of the new 66 or 76….
Color-Looks beautiful-but I have to say that being so dark you have to shine a light on it to notice it!! -So if you want to stand out with a shiny horn, you gotta get another!!
EVERYTHING ELSE
Everything else on the horn is fantastic. Intonation is flawless, keywork-great. Feel - great (except as mentioned above)
SOUND- Magical-the most beautiful, rich, lush, brooding, want to hug it sounding horn I have ever played.
OVERALL CONCLUSION: This horn will not be to everyone's taste-in fact I would say it is a little more specialized than the 76 or 66. I would probably steer a beginner or intermediate// semi pro / wanting a top class Mauriat in the direction of 66/67 and 76 first-which are "Standards" in excellence in top of the line professional horns- and maybe a little more accessible and forgiving.
The 86 has serious Bark, with this brooding Martin/ Selmer/ Conn like tone, but this beautiful creation needs an owner who wants what it has, and is prepared to work for its rewards.
For me, the 86 is the one that finally for me totally beats the others-by a long shot, however, whenever I make statements like this-I have to step back and say again-All the great horns are great in their own ways; masterpieces/// legends in their own right and there will always be musical situations where a I, or others would find them or others more suitable, but for me, now, today, I have found the answer.
Summary
The 86, has that great big sound that a Conn has, but more brooding, and a real richness and depth that the Conn does not have. It has the warmth of a Selmer-but more "bite"- and more depth, yet retains the 66 like aggression if required. It is no Conn, no 66, mark6 and no 76. It is a horn on its own and a great one. I absolutely love the 86. Mated to the right mouthpiece it is a stunning, gorgeous horn. I am totally excited about it.
Rating ***** (5 out of 5)
Roger Manins
28.7.2010
www.roger
With reference to the System 76, Mark 6, PMXT 66 and Conn 10M
By Roger Manins
www.rogermanins.com
About a year or so, I did a review of the System 76 Tenor. After extensive research, testing, gigs, recordings, tours on the 86UL Tenor, I now feel ready to give a comprehensive report of this fine horn.
When I first came across P Mauriat horns, I was happy with my lot. At the time I was on a much-loved Conn 10M, and still sometimes used of my Selmer Mark 6, which I had previously used for 20 years or so. However when I tried the P Mauriat horns, I was so impressed with the evenness, intonation, build, feel, price and sound of these horns that I was keen to endorse the product. Between the 76 and 66, I chose the 76. You can read this review, and my review of the 67UL alto by going to
http://www.pmauriatmusic.com and looking under my artist profile "Roger Manins". I also posted it on Sax on the Web but can't find it now!!
As I was still very keen on the 10 M, I had a non-exclusive agreement with P Mauriat. I was right behind the horns, and the ethos of the company, but as an artist, I needed the freedom to play what was right for me on a gig/ recording. This usually worked at half /half depending where or what I was playing. I also have 2 X fine mark 6 Tenors, which have been under the bed since then-not because the 76 is better than a 6. I say in my review there are improvements, and yes there are, but a killer horn will always be a killer horn. Also improvements are usually made at the expense of something else (I.e. bigger sound = less focus,). Every time I play the 66, I am amazed at its HUGE sound and evenness, but with my open set up (at the time Otto link9# with a 4 reed), I found that the more focused 76 with the more centered sound directed the flow better.
Compared with the 10 M, with my set up, the 66 was just that bit TOO much for me-and I thought it did not have the character of the 10 M. Don't get me wrong I would go so far to say that as a saxophone, and in the context of saxophone evolution, the 66 is probably the best horn I have ever played, but you have to find what is right for you.
When the 86UL came along, I took a risk and ordered one to sell on consignment in NZ from P Mauriat, and at the same time test it. What a learning curve. You know-I was totally happy before P Mauriat came along, and then I was suddenly in a " Sax Quest" (Good name guys!). The process of changing horns for me, really, I have to say, this has been a total pain in the *** experience. The old saying " If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind-then the human response " but these horns are so good!!" Damn!!!
So being a human, I spent the next and a bit year swapping, sweating, cursing, doing saxophone comparisons with any poor victim that would care to listen, changing reeds, recording, choosing…. between the 76, mark 6, 66, 10 M. Then the 86 came into the mix. It had something that I wanted. Really for the first time, I was able to play a horn against my Conn 10 M- That free blowing beauty, and hear and feel qualities that took what it had, and left it behind. To me the 86 is neither French sounding, nor American sounding. I have said to a few people" Its in between!!"-But I am not sure that's true either (in retrospect). To me-and I think I am right, the 76 is from the mark 6, and the 66/67 from the Conn/ American big sounding horns.
The 86 has the bigness of the 66- but not as broad, or in your face, and not as refined or silky smooth as the 76. The 86 has a bit of vintage Martin in it I think. You know those old martins have that dark warmth. The 86 has this and more-it still has the aggressive bite to it, flawless intonation etc, but a very very rich, dark, brooding compelling sound. It has more resistance than the 66-It's a little bit harder to blow. I think you have to work a little harder to get what you get. In this regard it is similar to the 76. Check out the following links and see if you can hear the difference between the Conn 10m on an Up temp rhythm changes, and the 76 on a up tempo blues
Conn 10 m --- Roger Manins Rhythm changes solo (9# Otto link HR)
System 76-Roger Manins blues solo (9# Otto link HR)
86UL vs. 66R-( Jodi Jazz HR 10# mouthpiece)
Below are some more audio files, free to download, or play on line, of Conn 10M and my Mark 6 Selmer
Conn 10M: Pennies from Heaven, Don't get around much, and End of a love affair
Selmer Mark 6: Falling in love with love, Love letters, Without A Song. Beatrice, Blues in the closet, Easy living
http://www.rogermanins.com /downloads.html
Now back to my review. I found that the 86 needed something, and after some thought I realized I need to try a few mouthpieces out. Now here I want to say something-I hate changing mouthpieces. I had been playing a 9# Otto link for 10 years solid, and the piece before that (Berg Larson HR 130M) a good 7 years. You see-the 9# link worked well on the Conn, mk 6 and the 76-and good on the 86 (but not great)-but I was "hearing" that I needed something to bring out the richness of the horn more. The horn needed something a little brighter, bigger and better. I am an ex student of George Garzone's, and was intrigued with his involvement with Jodi Jazz-and love his sound, so I ordered a Jodi Jazz HR 10#. This particular one I have is a darker sounding version than the stock Jodi 10#- but still a little more edgy than the Link-The mouthpiece on the 86 was perfect, but a hard set up to play. In order to get over this, I have been doing a lot of chop building long tones - quiet and LONG! This piece does require more chop strength to play, and I do not recommend it (I would highly recommend the 8*) You also really need your breathing and posture to be spot on, as this really is a mouthpiece for an experienced player.
BUT-now here is the thing!! With this mouthpiece, and this stunning horn, I feel closest I have ever come to realizing that sound in my head. I absolutely love playing the horn. It is chocolate-gorgeous. Also with 6 weeks of long tones behind me, I can take it!
Criticisms of the 86 Tenor
If your technique is good
Palm Keys-Eb too high, D a little low. I think this goes beyond personal preference, as the palm Eb gets in the way. Going from a Bisk key Bb to a palm key Eb there is too much movement needed-a waste of energy, and diminishing effectiveness of technique. The Eb key also gets in the way of the low Bb
Alt F key-Too smooth/ small-Needs to be a little chunkier in order for altissimo chromatic runs to feel solid. Generally altissimo comfort needs a re think in horns in general. I find the side keys (Bb, alt C) a little low too-this however I guess is personal preference but, chromatic altissimo runs is advanced stuff and saxophone design needs to pay a little more attention to this-Like design it like it would suite someone who only played up there.
Hi F#-- Now this could be horn set up, but the Pre F# key, F# fingering - i.e., not using the F# key provided, is not as clear as in other horns. I am wondering if when the horn is designed, they all assume we want to play that horrible F# key. This is good for certain things, but hopeless for chromatic runs. You have to use the old fingering for best results, and the old fingering does not seem to work as well. Interesting too, the F# key provided does not really sound to my liking either.
PS- My above comments could be argued as personal preference, hand size etc, but I do not have any complaints regarding the key heights of the new 66 or 76….
Color-Looks beautiful-but I have to say that being so dark you have to shine a light on it to notice it!! -So if you want to stand out with a shiny horn, you gotta get another!!
EVERYTHING ELSE
Everything else on the horn is fantastic. Intonation is flawless, keywork-great. Feel - great (except as mentioned above)
SOUND- Magical-the most beautiful, rich, lush, brooding, want to hug it sounding horn I have ever played.
OVERALL CONCLUSION: This horn will not be to everyone's taste-in fact I would say it is a little more specialized than the 76 or 66. I would probably steer a beginner or intermediate// semi pro / wanting a top class Mauriat in the direction of 66/67 and 76 first-which are "Standards" in excellence in top of the line professional horns- and maybe a little more accessible and forgiving.
The 86 has serious Bark, with this brooding Martin/ Selmer/ Conn like tone, but this beautiful creation needs an owner who wants what it has, and is prepared to work for its rewards.
For me, the 86 is the one that finally for me totally beats the others-by a long shot, however, whenever I make statements like this-I have to step back and say again-All the great horns are great in their own ways; masterpieces/// legends in their own right and there will always be musical situations where a I, or others would find them or others more suitable, but for me, now, today, I have found the answer.
Summary
The 86, has that great big sound that a Conn has, but more brooding, and a real richness and depth that the Conn does not have. It has the warmth of a Selmer-but more "bite"- and more depth, yet retains the 66 like aggression if required. It is no Conn, no 66, mark6 and no 76. It is a horn on its own and a great one. I absolutely love the 86. Mated to the right mouthpiece it is a stunning, gorgeous horn. I am totally excited about it.
Rating ***** (5 out of 5)
Roger Manins
28.7.2010
www.roger
