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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen people asking for a chart for Otto link HR mouthpieces so this is my attempt to make one.
View attachment 239704
A few things that I don't have all the information on:
1. The whole thing about Early Babbitts (and to some extent everything post-slant) seems to be a clusterf*ck with all sorts of conflicting information. I don't know if it's possible to pinpoint exact models/runs, especially considering the variations between pieces. I think it's in general true that the baffle gets smaller later in the run until it completely disappears, thus I'm calling it a continuum.
2. Are there variations within the slant models that are significant enough to deserve their own category?
3. When have the Reso chamber model ended? I'm having trouble finding that and therefore unable to pair it with it's concurrent metal model.
4. What are the exact dimensions of the different fonts? I don't think any photo can demonstrate the differences sufficiently to someone with an untrained eye.

Please DO save it, modify it with new information and put it pack here. I do not wish to claim any authority on this subject, and the purpose of this thread is mainly to initiate a discussion for the real experts and provide something to start and work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes the metal link chart is what inspired this. The threads on the HR links are also extremely helpful..
 

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You forgot the part about numbers in the chamber. Also the different outer dimensions and measurement of the height of the chamber floor.
Tone Edges are tough to pigeonhole in the EB to early 80’s era.
 

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Nice work so far.
I wonder if you could compile some reliable data on EB table to floor measurements and then offer a range in your chart? You would need to be careful where you got your data from, some of the pro dealers and mouthpiece techs such as Mojo have a wealth of accurate measurements.
Whaler has noted the difficulty of distinguishing EBs from early 80s Tone Edges, there are many anomalies to contend with here. I have even seen examples of exterior TE blanks that have the extreme steep drop on the beak, identical to a late 60s slant, but with a moulding number inside the chamber. Babbitt appeared to mix inner and outer moulds on occasion? The table to floor measurement is perhaps the best way of distinguishing EBs from 80s TEs.
I have one 80s TE with a moulding number and nice baffle which measures 16mm.
My three best EBs measure 14.7mm, 14.8mm and 15.2mm.
These figures are accurate, but to have credibility your chart would need to use measurements from a recognised professional with a data bank, such as Mojo.
 

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Make sure if you get table to floor measures they are from the INSIDE of the piece...where the floor begins.
Keep in mind that there is not a different mold for every size piece. A blank is made and then it is put on a milling machine to cut the table and facing.
Different size pieces will have different measures due to the amount of material removed.
This creates different table to floor heights, not to mention variance from piece to piece.
Even from under the table there will be variance due to shrinking and the fact that there are many molds and cores used to mass produce pieces.
Parts of cores are machined but the chambers are hand cut and then heavily plated for use in production.
 

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Nice work so far.
I wonder if you could compile some reliable data on EB table to floor measurements and then offer a range in your chart? You would need to be careful where you got your data from, some of the pro dealers and mouthpiece techs such as Mojo have a wealth of accurate measurements.
Whaler has noted the difficulty of distinguishing EBs from early 80s Tone Edges, there are many anomalies to contend with here. I have even seen examples of exterior TE blanks that have the extreme steep drop on the beak, identical to a late 60s slant, but with a moulding number inside the chamber. Babbitt appeared to mix inner and outer moulds on occasion? The table to floor measurement is perhaps the best way of distinguishing EBs from 80s TEs.
I have one 80s TE with a moulding number and nice baffle which measures 16mm.
My three best EBs measure 14.7mm, 14.8mm and 15.2mm.
These figures are accurate, but to have credibility your chart would need to use measurements from a recognised professional with a data bank, such as Mojo.
Mojo made a good post about this in one of the HR Link threads I referred to in this thread (in post #2):

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...rn-Tone-Edge&p=2009703&viewfull=1#post2009703
I think to tell one needs to measure the distance from the table at the base of the window "U" to the floor inside the mouthpiece. This can be done with the depth probe on a set of calipers. If the reading is less than .600", it is a more desirable Link regardless of when it was made. EBs are typically .580-.590. I measured a new vintage recently at .570". It was great after a reface. The regular modern Tone Edge measures .620"-.630" and sounds a bit tubby to many players.

FYI, .031" is 1/32". So we are talking about something that you can not see in pictures.

Yes the baffle shape near the tip is important too. But it does not tell the whole story.
By the way: 0.600 inch = 15.24 millimeter (lower is often EB, higher is modern TE).
 

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Nice work so far.
I wonder if you could compile some reliable data on EB table to floor measurements and then offer a range in your chart? You would need to be careful where you got your data from, some of the pro dealers and mouthpiece techs such as Mojo have a wealth of accurate measurements.
Whaler has noted the difficulty of distinguishing EBs from early 80s Tone Edges, there are many anomalies to contend with here. I have even seen examples of exterior TE blanks that have the extreme steep drop on the beak, identical to a late 60s slant, but with a moulding number inside the chamber. Babbitt appeared to mix inner and outer moulds on occasion? The table to floor measurement is perhaps the best way of distinguishing EBs from 80s TEs.
I have one 80s TE with a moulding number and nice baffle which measures 16mm.
My three best EBs measure 14.7mm, 14.8mm and 15.2mm.
These figures are accurate, but to have credibility your chart would need to use measurements from a recognised professional with a data bank, such as Mojo.
It seems the three things that make any Link play well, Tone Edge or STM, is the combination of baffle, height of the chamber floor and most importantly that the reproductions and new Links miss, the height of the area after the baffle leading into the chamber. In an old Slant I have that area is very high compared to what they make now.
 

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...I have even seen examples of exterior TE blanks that have the extreme steep drop on the beak, identical to a late 60s slant, but with a moulding number inside the chamber. Babbitt appeared to mix inner and outer moulds on occasion? The table to floor measurement is perhaps the best way...
Yes! While the steep body to beak drop is a general indication, it is not what make the piece sound desirable. There are great Links that do not have the steep drop and tubby ones that do have the steep drop. It is what is inside that counts.
 

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Hello for some gigs I'm impressed by my tenor Slant Sig 7*. it's a pity that there is not directly a Slant mouthpiece for Alto, or is the New York Bros also comparable?
 

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According to Babbitt the alto pieces never changed cores.
However, there are certainly differences in the way they were finished in terms of amount of baffle.
I have started to see things like EB ALto Link which I am suspicious of. Lately I see EB Meyers and there simply is no such thing.
A great deal of this is fueled by Ebay Sellers.
 

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Yeah, and anything with a Slant signature on it is gold. I've seen vintage "Slant Signature" Bundy tenor sax's advertise as well as "Slant Signature" Buescher Aristocrats. It's because a ridiculous buzz word.
 

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Yeah, and anything with a Slant signature on it is gold. I've seen vintage "Slant Signature" Bundy tenor sax's advertise as well as "Slant Signature" Buescher Aristocrats. It's because a ridiculous buzz word.
That means we’ll soon see it in Chinese sax stuff.
I had a Tone Edge with the steep drop, clam shell baffle and the number 1 inside, tubby. I have one that I play, no steep drop, slim body, higher chamber floor, clamshell and no number. Nice and bright. It’s probably early 80’s.
That chart is not really a “go to” for Tone Edges that will play well.
 

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I wonder about TEs since Babbit bought the name and after they ran out of Florida blanks. That has been forty years! No change? Same for STMs.
 

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I wonder about TEs since Babbit bought the name and after they ran out of Florida blanks. That has been forty years! No change? Same for STMs.
Babbitt made some new models (like FL STM, NY STM, millenium STM, NV TM, NVS TE), but indeed the main TE and STM line didn't seem to change much (except maybe for using slightly different blanks and maybe other/less accurate finishing methods).

They probably think: why change a proven concept that sells well!
 

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Babbitt made some new models (like FL STM, NY STM, millenium STM, NV TM, NVS TE), but indeed the main TE and STM line didn't seem to change much (except maybe for using slightly different blanks and maybe other/less accurate finishing methods).

They probably think: why change a proven concept that sells well!
Not for baritone. Apparently there’s been no design change for 40 years. The one I have from the mid-90s, said to be a poor era for links, actually plays and sounds great. Better than my boutique pieces. A more recent bari STM needs some help.
 
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