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I have heard rumor and hearsay of necks being intentionally pulled down in shops or that Selmer was experimenting with necks in the early 60s but can't confirm anything of the sort.
Well there were certainly necks pulled up for different reasons, one was Jimmy Giuffre Selmer Tenor but I have seen, first hand, and played, on a Mark VI which a friend of mine bought from a Dutch performing Musician whom had it changed, for playing comfort reasons, too.



We have spoken about neck modifications and relative sound before ( just one example)

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?341078-How-to-change-bend-in-alto-neck
 

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I've done a few DIY straightenings. I first run my calipers around the tenon to see if it is out of round. Same with the receiver. Although the crook bends easiest, a whack sufficient to bend the neck can also thrown the tenon and receiver out of round, causing problems throughout the horn.

My favorite way for "hand bending" the neck is to find a wrench socket that fits tightly inside of the tenon. Fit the socket on the socket wrench and lay the wrench handle on the bench. The wrench handle now give you way more leverage (a dangerous amount) than just holding the tenon end of the neck in hour hand. I still try to distribute the bending force as much as possible using my fingers, but the wrench can help. It can even help too much, so be careful and work slowly.

Before starting, I put the tenon flat on my glass workbench and measure the distance between the bottom of the cork end and the bench. That gives me a "benchmark" yuk, yuk. For my first try, I'm looking to bend it up maybe a millimeter. Just enough to get something to measure. That helps me gauge the force to use. Doing it right requires about 10 tries, with the first several showing no change. Put it on the horn and ask yourself if you can live with your modification, keeping in mind that you can always make it worse. The problem with DIY projects is that the distance between perfection and destruction is often very close. Play it and ask yourself if the oval deformation (which you have also measured and kept track of) is an acoustical issue, a cosmetic issue, or a mental issue? That will determine your stopping point.

Mark
 

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I'm not crazy about using a petal tenon expander to support the tenon since it only touches at a small area around the circumference. Though I guess you could put it just where the tenon and neck meet in a thicker area, with very little force on the tenon itself.

Some repairers use tenon shrinkers which have a close fitting sleeve all around the tenon to support it. Having used that (from Boehm) and the socket itself, I found both methods work, with no issues with the latter. I have my other hand support the lowest part of the neck just above the tenon. I've never bent a tenon or socket this way.

As some mentioned, most of the ovaling usually comes out when correcting the angle.
Re the necks having to be round from end to end... I'm wondering if you measured it accurately to make sure it is? To what tolerance is "round" round enough? Is it just the way it looks? Even new necks from the known manufacturers are not always so accurate in that regard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I guess I should have made my intention clearer: I specifically want to do this myself.
Actually, I just said I was repairing the horn because that was simpler. It's an old Bundy with serious body damage, well beyond what is economically sensible to repair on such a horn. I paid very little for it, and see the entire instrument as a learning experience.
I'll pull a few parts off to donate to another horn, then learn to solder on it - that way, when I make mistakes, I won't feel bad about ruining a usable or valuable instrument. Later I'll get comfortable un- and resoldering body joints, and down the road straighten out the body and bell flare, all just for practice.

Thanks for the advice everyone! This sounds like something I can do with the tools I already have, I just have to be careful and patient. That ain't new to me ;)
 

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I guess I should have made my intention clearer: I specifically want to do this myself.
It was clear enough to me. But this is SOTW...

I recall when you first came here when you were a kid. Eager to learn, and eager to advise others. Glad to see you stuck with it all to become a better player and now want to repair your own horns. More power to you. I see what techs can charge for simple things, and that's inspired me to do as much work on my own horns as I can. We should be encouraging this as a community.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
It was clear enough to me. But this is SOTW...

I recall when you first came here when you were a kid. Eager to learn, and eager to advise others. Glad to see you stuck with it all to become a better player and now want to repair your own horns. More power to you. I see what techs can charge for simple things, and that's inspired me to do as much work on my own horns as I can. We should be encouraging this as a community.

Good luck!
I also picked up basic maintenance a few years ago out of necessity. Once I got my bari and started looking for a soprano to play after I got out of high school, I knew I wouldn't be able to afford to keep up with maintenance. So, I invested in some tools and started taking care of my own instruments, and now every 8 months they get serviced instead of every 12-18. I've also found that I enjoy the work, so I decided to invest more time and money and keep going with it.

Thank you for the kind words!
 

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An old repairman I knew long ago just left the neck in the saxophone and pulled it back up. It did the trick, but, it was not a significant bend to begin with.
 

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What happens if thence does have some oval cross section? Do we we know for sure that it would cause a deterioration in sound? Or just a change.

A change in sound can of course be better or worse. In fact there are necks available which sound great, and have at least some of the cross se3ction being oval as intended from the factory so who is to say that it might not be an improvement?
I don't know that answer. Professional neck specialists like Kim Bock see 'out-of-round' anywhere in the sax, especially in the neck, as a condition that should be repaired. I've seen plenty of players with visible 'pull-down' who sounded great - I still would wonder how they would sound with it corrected. The neck I sent to KB did not seem to have pull-down but it was out of round, which he corrected. It did seem to play better but still not as well as the new Series III neck so that's what I use on the VI now. At some point I might start playing the original neck again, or not, but I'm definitely keeping it.
 

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I had a dancer fall on my Mark VI... bent neck pretty severely.
Luckily, I have quite a few Pro Trumpet player-friends... who suggested that I bring it to Calicchio, trumpet manufacturer in Los Angeles...
Not only did he straighten it, but he also put a brace for strength...
This is a GREAT acoustically remodeled and beefed up neck... I put it on Getz's sax (yes Stan) and completely livened it up... I have then had other VI players try it out... and are amazed at how it lets their horns play.
Excuse the look of the neck (I was one of the first to find the correct location for sax pickup {R&B}). Musical instrument Household hardware Metal Wood Rectangle
 

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I've also found that I enjoy the work...
I find it tedious and quite demanding in a most annoying, hyper-technical sort of way... but I'm a cheap bastard and what can ya do? Now for my other concern... you being in Maryland man... when you gonna come down to Annapolis and catch my brass band?
 

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An old repairman I knew long ago just left the neck in the saxophone and pulled it back up. It did the trick, but, it was not a significant bend to begin with.
That works fine, providing the forces applied by the hand to the teno/receiver area are applied in such a way that they do not significantly stress the soldered junctions between neck and tenon, and between receiver and body.
 

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An old repairman I knew long ago just left the neck in the saxophone and pulled it back up. It did the trick, but, it was not a significant bend to begin with.
That works fine, providing the forces applied by the hand to the teno/receiver area are applied in such a way that they do not significantly stress the soldered junctions between neck and tenon, and between receiver and body.

However if I use one hand to achieve this, and one hand to pull the neck, then I have no hand left to gently tap the ovalled area to help it return to round. This tapping is most successful while the neck is under stress being straightened.
 
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