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I recently got a tenor to repair that has some substantial pulldown to the neck. No creases but the bore is a bit oval at the bend. This will be my first time dealing with this particular issue, so I looked into my repair manual ('Complete Woodwind Repair' by Reg Thorpe) and it recommends clamping the neck tenon in a steel ring and literally just pulling the neck back up.

Is there a better way to do this? Even with annealing I'm worried about cracking the brass at the bend, and I would love to avoid the need for patches.

If nothing else, can anyone chime in on your experience on using pine rosin or Cerrobend as a filler?
 

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well, it is surprising what one could achieve with just popping the neck back, however this is not for the over enthusiast or faint hearted ( sorry I am not implying that you may be, but grabbing with appropriate force a neck which may belong to and expensive horn and push it back is not a thing that one does without any trepidation). I have tried it twice and worked fine and very well , once a SA 80 tenor neck came to me bent and there was no way for me to do anything. I sold it “ as is “ to someone whom said that he would have it done by the Blazers atelier in the Netherlands, what they did I don’t know but it worked, apparently.

Chances are that the repair at this shop will cost you less than the materials :bluewink:

There are other options like giving this to an expert. Cerrobend and the likes of this are not working all that well but here it goes, there are threads about this

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?217519-Reshaping-(bending)-the-sax-neck
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?161813-Cerrobend

Watch this video it says books about this company. :bluewink:

 

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Upload a photo of it. What is substantial?

Pull it straight very gently to make it close to original; you will not get it to 100%. (Short lengths of wood dowels of various diameter to clamp into a vise are good to have around.). Brass tubing bends easily, as you know; gentle force is key.

Ovaling can be repaired by light hammering, tapping really, with the correct tool, a completely smooth 3-4 ounce oval faced hammer. It's not a technique a person learns in a few minutes, and it takes a good eye and touch. I've seen it done and know I can't do it.

With failure or creasing some players have the neck made straight, lacquer stripped, with creases filled with silver solder, then plated. Whenever I see a sax with its neck plated "to give it a brighter sound" I rest assured there has been some issue other than simple lacquer loss.
 

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Send it to somebody who knows what they're doing.
 

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Whenever I see a sax with its neck plated "to give it a brighter sound" I rest assured there has been some issue other than simple lacquer loss.
Or they had it plated because they wanted a different finish. Not everyone is out to hide something.

+4 for getting it repaired properly by someone with experience. The neck is the core of the instrument - if it doesn't work well, neither will the rest of the horn.
 

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This is a common repair and can be done by most techs with some experience if it is not seriously deformed. I use my petal type neck expander in a vice to secure the neck tenon and the lift the end of the neck while at the same time squeezing the sides of the oval portion with my thumb and forefinger. The combination of the two works on many necks. Good hand strength is a plus. If it takes more to "knock down" or bring down the ridges, a small dent hammer can be used a previously noted. The face of the hammer must be very smooth and covered with thick teflon. In addition it is a good idea to cover the area being tapped with thin teflon tape as well. Rather than striking the metal straight on one needs to tap the high part with a glancing blow. Lots of smaller taps are used rather than a few big ones. The technique takes some practice and skill, but it is not a terribly specialized repair unless the bend is extreme. That is when it is best to send it to a specialist like John Uttech in Wisconsin.
 

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In a similar situation myself a few months ago, I decided that the easiest (and cheapest) way to an undamaged neck was buying a new one (Chinese "Power Neck") from ebay. I didn't have any of the special tools or jigs or anvils needed to repair the original, myself. I was able to sand the 0.3 mm off the tenon myself, though, to get the $69 replacement to fit. If you have the tools, go for it, but otherwise a replacement might work out better for you.

Incidentally, it was a smashing success!
 

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Or they had it plated because they wanted a different finish. Not everyone is out to hide something.

+4 for getting it repaired properly by someone with experience. The neck is the core of the instrument - if it doesn't work well, neither will the rest of the horn.
Thanks, yet again.

And of course, it makes perfect sense to pay to strip and plate a perfectly good original neck, and not just buy another for less money. I mean, why have the original matching one, right?
 

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Thanks, yet again.

And of course, it makes perfect sense to pay to strip and plate a perfectly good original neck, and not just buy another for less money. I mean, why have the original matching one, right?
You didn't say a "perfectly good original neck", did you?

Whenever I see a sax with its neck plated "to give it a brighter sound" I rest assured there has been some issue other than simple lacquer loss.
If the lacquer is gone, or the finish degraded, it is a reasonable choice to plate the neck rather than relacquer it and not get a good match. Then there are those tenor players going for that Brecker look...
 

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In a similar situation myself a few months ago, I decided that the easiest (and cheapest) way to an undamaged neck was buying a new one (Chinese "Power Neck") from ebay. I didn't have any of the special tools or jigs or anvils needed to repair the original, myself. I was able to sand the 0.3 mm off the tenon myself, though, to get the $69 replacement to fit. If you have the tools, go for it, but otherwise a replacement might work out better for you.

Incidentally, it was a smashing success!
I bought one of the Chinese Power Necks for my BA and still don’t want to admit how much better it plays than the original and a Mark VI neck I have that fits it.
Maybe someday I’ll see if the other $700 Chinese necks play any better.
I had a pulled down Mark VI neck I just bent back up. It was a dinged up school horn with a mismatched neck so I figured it wasn’t going to be any worse It worked out fine as far as the angle and I really didn’t notice much bowing on the sides.
 

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Simply pulling a neck back up can correct the angle but not the ovaling. The neck needs to be round from beginning to end. Kim Bock of KB Sax in the City did one for me and it was nice work. I don't bend down necks myself but it was a very minor pulldown in the neck when I got the sax. Tell you the truth, though, it really didn't play that differently after the work but I was still glad I did it.
 

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Some of this thread is a bit funny, isn't it ? I mean, a guy's neck has moderate pulldown and some are suggesting buying a new neck ?

This doesn't sound bad at all...you could either take it to a tech and have them repair it and quite honestly I doubt it'd cost $75 based upon your description.

OR...if you care to, since you DID state you purchased the horn to repair it...then, along Milandro's suggestion, you could try pulling it up yourself.

You could do it as your manual states, you could do as saxoclese suggests (using a tenon expander as the 'anchor' during your pull-up). OR, you could put the neck back into the receiver, tighten the receiver, and then while your index-middle-ring fingers of each hand press down on the top of the neck tube, use your two thumbs, placed about an inch or so behind the pip, to push the neck tube upward with some force. Like, from 1-10, you would be using a force of maybe around 4 to start. If it doesn't budge, go to 5. This will move the tube back towards its original state. The neck receiver is acting as the same sorta 'anchor' a tenon expander or clamp ring would be. And no, for light to moderate pulldown, this will not hurt the receiver any.

As stated by others, afterward some light hammering may well be required. Hammer-tapping in and of itself is a bit of an art...so your first attempts at it may be a bit rough.
I disagree with the statement directly above mine; you will be surprised how much ovalization is relieved simply by bending or pushing back up. IMHO, yes, the push/pull up actually DOES correct some ovalization....


NOTE: if you have a hefty neckbrace, you may have to unsolder and remove the neckbrace.

You wanna learn how to do this stuff, so I say give 'er a go yourself, using one suggested method or another....you will not need cerrobend or annealing or anything of that sort, based upon how you have described it....
 

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Simply pulling a neck back up can correct the angle but not the ovaling. The neck needs to be round from beginning to end.
What happens if thence does have some oval cross section? Do we we know for sure that it would cause a deterioration in sound? Or just a change.

A change in sound can of course be better or worse. In fact there are necks available which sound great, and have at least some of the cross se3ction being oval as intended from the factory so who is to say that it might not be an improvement?
 

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I agree with JayeLID.
I have straightened many.
I have used a tenon expander to hold the tenon. I have also used the receiver, which is just as good. It is not damaged because I do not apply bending forces to the receiver, only the bent part of the neck. Forces on the receiver are pushing it sideways (i.e. radially) relative to the neck, but not relative to the sax body.

Simply pulling a neck back up can correct the angle but not the ovaling. .
As for JayeLID, my experience is almost always contrary to this.
 

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What happens if thence does have some oval cross section? Do we we know for sure that it would cause a deterioration in sound? Or just a change.

A change in sound can of course be better or worse. In fact there are necks available which sound great, and have at least some of the cross se3ction being oval as intended from the factory so who is to say that it might not be an improvement?
There is a comment above speaking to the sound resulting after restoring the neck.

The neck on my 105 is pulled down and ovaled. Unlike other pulled down Selmer necks I've seen, this one does not look damaged. I have or had other tenors - 10m and Handcraft - which, while at the correct angle, were still ovaled.

When comparing Mark 6s, mine with the pull down still comes in highly ranked by various players. Invariably, the best sound seems to travel from sax to sax when you swap necks around.

I have heard rumor and hearsay of necks being intentionally pulled down in shops or that Selmer was experimenting with necks in the early 60s but can't confirm anything of the sort. Rather than correcting my 105 neck, a Ponzol also rates well in shoot out test playing.

From what I can gather of the term, that oval bulge in the neck is a parabolic bore.
 
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