[Shade of Blue]

So I've been playing on a modern NY STM 8* (.115) for a few years and like it for the most part, but been searching for something a little darker. Had a chance to try out a Lamberson J8 (.120) and it seemed like the perfect solution, but I've been waiting on an order from Fred for a few months now, so I've been looking into other things in the meantime as an alternative.

After reading some reviews here, recently bought a Tenney Jazzmaster from the original owner which is stamped as a 7* but he and I both measured it as more like .097, which is odd considering every other reference to Tenney's measurements say they should be the same as a Link (.105 in this case). I love the tone it gives me, retaining the clarity and ring of the STM but with a little less buzz and a fatter upper register, but I'm having some issues with reed strength and resistance. On my STM I normally use D'addario Reserve 2.5, Alexander NY 3, or Boston Sax Shop 3-3.5, so I was expecting to have to move up at least one full strength for the Tenney. To my surprise, the Tenney is SO resistant that moving up even a half strength becomes uncomfortable to play, and it actually plays easiest and sounds best with the same exact reeds I use on my STM. Not sure if this is due to the thick rails (the side rails seem similar to my STM but the tip rail is much thicker), or the facing legth/curve (which I can't measure), or some other factor. In any case, while it plays easily with these reeds and has a nice dark tone, it lacks a little bit of the depth I feel when I play a more open setup, and it makes subtoning more difficult and more limited dynamically. I've developed my subtone (not only on my STM but on other similar mouthpieces) to the point that I use it all the time and am able to change between real tone and subtone with very little embouchure change, can transition seamlessly from one to the other, and can produce a very fat loud subtone when I so choose. With the Tenney, it takes a much more signifant embouchure/airflow adjustment to subtone, and it's only stable at a very low volume and breaks when pushed.

Now, I THINK these are natural limitations of a smaller tip opening, as well as of a shorter facing, which I can't confirm the Tenney has but suspect it does. Is this something that could be remedied by opening up the Tenney? Is there a way to do that, considering how resistant it is now, without making it so impossible to play that I'd be using strength 1 reeds? Would doing this ruin the design and intended character of the piece? Maybe Mojo could do a bias butt cut to open it up and potentially lengthen the facing?

Or should I just move on and find something more suitable? Maybe a Morgan CL or L model in a .115 opening? By the way if anyone has a more open Tenney or a Lamberson J8 for sale/trade, I would be open to that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dr G]

I had Doc Tenney make a Jazzmaster 8 for me, and he tried to warn me off. It just didn’t work as well as a 7. Bottom line: If you like a Tenney, play it as it is and don’t mess with it. The chamber just wasn’t designed to balance well with larger tip openings.

FWIW, after a lot o’ years on various Lamberson J (sizes 6, 7, 8), I am really digging my Phil-Tone Intrepid 7*.

 

[Nefertiti]

I would just move on. Any work on it would be an experiment on a piece that you are not sure you would dig afterwards. You would also probably have trouble selling it after it is worked on just because it will no longer be a Tenney but a hybrid piece of two mouthpiece craftsman. If you don't care about those things at all then send it to Mojo and see what he says about it.

 

[10mfan]

Why don’t you just send it to Ben Allen?
He is making copies of these pieces and he will do a great job for you.
He will do more for you than just change the tip size if that’s what you want. If you need it brighter or less resistant or whatever, you just let him know.

He’s on this site under Allen Mouthpieces

 

[MojoBari]

IMO, even though you know the original owner, there is a high probability this mouthpiece is no longer set up the way Tenney originally did it. I do not think he would have made it a .097” tip with a resistant facing curve. Someone altered it or it has been exposed to heat.

 

[Manitou]

another option
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?362980-Phil-Tone-Jazzmaster-style-pieces

 

[mrpeebee]

Try a darker reed on your STM 8*. For me Rico Royal and Rico Plasticover sound darker compared to for instance La Voz, but you have to check what works best with your own embouchure.

 

[chknbon]

I just bought a 8* Jazzmaster from Ben & it is a very dynamic playing mpc. It supposedly has a 24/48 facing length. There is negligible tip baffle so altissimo is a little more elusive but still good. Balanced from top to bottom. I expected to need a softer reed but it works great with D'Addar. 3H reeds. Consider sending your Jazzmaster to Ben Allen for his take on the Jazzmaster.

 

[reeddoubler]

I have several Tenney mouthpieces, both for tenor and alto, including 3 Jazzmasters. It took me a long time to zero in on the best reed strengths for all of them, but when I did they are all amazing in their own ways. Doc didn’t think the Jazzmaster worked as well with more open facings, I would agree, as one of the one’s I have was opened By its previous owner from .105 to .108 by Brian Powell, who also thinned the rails. While Brian’s work is as usual, immaculate, even with the right reed, it doesn’t have the fullness and response of my original Jazzmasters. Likewise I’ve owned Benjamin Allen and Philtone versions of the Tenney design, and neither play quite like my originals. Prior to finding the reed type and strength to work optimally on my Jazzmasters I considered selling them, but I’m so glad I persevered, they play amazingly with the right setup, don’t give up on them!

 

[Dr G]

I just bought a 8* Jazzmaster from Ben & it is a very dynamic playing mpc. It supposedly has a 24/48 facing length. There is negligible tip baffle so altissimo is a little more elusive but still good. Balanced from top to bottom. I expected to need a softer reed but it works great with D'Addar. 3H reeds. Consider sending your Jazzmaster to Ben Allen for his take on the Jazzmaster.

I am interested to learn whether Ben modified the chamber to complement the larger tip opening. I have seen similar things with Meyer alto pieces - when you go to a tip larger than 6, you start to lose some of the inherent "pop" in the design unless you go with the smaller chamber (ex. 6MM to 7MS).

It may be easier for Ben to make a larger-tip Jazzmaster from a blank, than to enlarge the tip and rebalance the chamber and baffle.

 

[A Greene]

Huge fan of Dr. Tenney's work. I'd leave anything he's done alone. I'm sure Ben can put something together for you.

 

[rek]

Still loving my Phil-tone Jazzmaster, can't think of anything I'd want to change. Might be worth seeing what Phil says.

 

[chknbon]

Dr G., the only scuff marks inside the mpc are from shaping the tip baffle(very distinct, but very low) & light sanding behind that for 3/4 in. or less. He asked if I wanted thick rails or thin, I said medium. The mpc does not have Tenney markings, rather Benjamin Allen, New Orleans. no marks under the table. It's a large chamber for sure.

 

[Dr G]

Dr G., the only scuff marks inside the mpc are from shaping the tip baffle(very distinct, but very low) & light sanding behind that for 3/4 in. or less. He asked if I wanted thick rails or thin, I said medium. The mpc does not have Tenney markings, rather Benjamin Allen, New Orleans. no marks under the table. It's a large chamber for sure.

Thanks. Ben is good - I've had several of his pieces. It's often interesting with pieces when you push outside the original size. Does it retain its design characteristics, or does the very nature of going to a bigger tip opening change the inherent character? If/when it does, is that what you wanted?

Cheers.

 

[Shade of Blue]

Try a darker reed on your STM 8*. For me Rico Royal and Rico Plasticover sound darker compared to for instance La Voz, but you have to check what works best with your own embouchure.

Yeah, I've tried pretty much every concievable reed to narrow it down to those 3 I've been using (D'ad. Reserve / Alex. NY / BSS). Never tried Plasticover but from what I've read they play brighter than a Reserve, more like Select Jazz which to me are very bright. Got some Royal and Orange Box recently to try em out but didn't like them....orange were very buzzy, and the Royals less so but to me had a very small/narrow sound. I like La Voz ok, but still a little brighter than Reserve. Hemke's I also like ok but they always seemed a little too floppy/unstable and die quickly, but maybe I owe them another shot with my new reedjuvinate-style storage system that seems to help with things like that. Don't get along too well with Vandoren products, I find blue box to either be too airy/dead at low volume in a 3 or too buzzy in a 2.5, and all the other cuts are too harsh (V12/16) or buzzy (V21/java/zz). Also tried Alexander Classiques and liked a couple but it was really hard to get a good read on them (pun intended?) because the few boxes I tried were all over the place strength-wise, from very soft to way too hard to play within one box.
Maybe I should give plasticovers a shot, but my most recent experiment was to order the new VENN, and that crashed and burned pretty spectacularly, so....

Any of you with Tenneys able to relay the measurements on yours? Curious if this 7* is an outlier.

 

[chknbon]

I doubt there's much similarity in sound concept between my 8* & Doc's original. But I have a 10E b.p. T.E. 7 that I couldn't get to work at all for my concept. After 4 yrs of trying I finally sent it for refacing. It went to Sakshama then Jensen where it never went past .103. It didn't work for me. Then I sent it to J. Bunte who opened it to .115. It's fantastic. I played it on my gig last Saturday night. It plays so big & easy. 7 tip openings don't do it for me.

 

[Rackety Sax]

IMO, even though you know the original owner, there is a high probability this mouthpiece is no longer set up the way Tenney originally did it. I do not think he would have made it a .097" tip with a resistant facing curve. Someone altered it or it has been exposed to heat.

My recollection of the few mouthpieces I had of his is that the tips tended to run small.

 

[Shade of Blue]

on my gig last Saturday night

that word in the middle, I don't recognize it

 

[mrpeebee]

Yeah, I've tried pretty much every concievable reed to narrow it down to those 3 I've been using (D'ad. Reserve / Alex. NY / BSS). Never tried Plasticover but from what I've read they play brighter than a Reserve, more like Select Jazz which to me are very bright.

You tested a lot of brands!

I also thought the Plasticovers would be too bright, but was surprised to find out they weren't (for me). They can play bright if you want, but with normal air-stream they can be mellow too. Compare these sound clips on >Plasticover< and >La Voz< (same Link STM mouthpiece).

 

[MojoBari]

My recollection of the few mouthpieces I had of his is that the tips tended to run small.

I have measured over 20 Tenneys and they were on size within .001" as measured inside the tip rail. That is unless they were warped indicating heat exposure.

My records indicate I measured a JazzMaster 7* in 2009. I'll dig to see if I still have detailed measurements of it.