[skeller047]

The now closed packaging thread inspired me to take this comparison shot:

Old:
25 reeds
Bio-degradable packaging

New:
10 reeds
Annoying plastic sleeves
Larger box!

I know why it's done this way now - so machines can safely handle and package the reeds. But I think I prefer the old way.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Yes, I agree, the old ways are the best. I contacted Vandoren and inquired about the plastic sleeve. Here was their reply.

Hi Steve,

My name is Sylvain Carton and I am the West Coast Artist Relations and Product Specialist for Vandoren in the US.

Thank you for your note and dedication to the environment. Vandoren is also committed to the global environment and we are always looking for new and better ways to reduce our footprint while maintaining the highest standards for our products. Our plastic reed protectors are made of 100% recyclable polypropylene (with the triangular symbol pp5). Depending upon the country/city, they can be recycled along with other plastics. There should be some options around you for recycling our reed protectors. I am guessing you already have this info, but for more information on your local recycling program, click here:

https://search.earth911.com/?what=#...&longitude=&country=&province=&city=&sponsor=

We are also musicians, we understand your concern and all of our research has been dedicated to finding processes that combine an efficiency for the musician, state-of-the art technology and environmental preoccupations. This is not an easy task but we are committed to it.

We export 95% of our reeds worldwide, and often the journey is long to the musician, in distance and time, and in very dry or very humid climates. Additionally we are not in control of where the reeds end up being stored or displayed (i.e., in a sunny shop window, under heating vents, in an air-conditioned room, etc&#8230 on their way to musicians. For this reason it was necessary for us to find a way to send « Factory Fresh » reeds with a « Flow Pack » that protects reeds from a huge range of environmental conditions and with an individual reed protector that helps keep the reed table flat. Our packaging is currently designed to keep the reeds in a stable environment as they go from the factory to the musician, preventing warping, drying, cracking, etc… and allowing for greater consistency within a box, in effect creating less wasted reeds.

The "flow pack", released in 2005, is made of recyclable film (whose calorific value during incineration is important). The choice of our supplier was made according to the technical constraints related to the performance of the flow pack for the protection of the reed and also vis-à-vis an ecological approach (company certified ISO14001 which concerns the environmental management).

Our cellophane for reeds boxes is a very common type based on polypropylene.

Additionally, we are continuing our research into biodegradable and compostable films. The fineness of the films we use has the advantage of limiting the volume of waste in comparison with other packaging solutions such as waterproof box or hygrometry maintenance methods.

Concerning cardboard boxes and cases as well as all of our prints, we decided to entrust their realization to companies strongly committed to the path of ecology.

Regarding the manufacturing of our reeds:

The reed used as material for making reeds is a 100% natural plant. It should be emphasized that the shiny part of the reed is not varnish but the natural bark of the reed. Reed cane waste resulting from the manufacture of reeds is fully reused either as powder and compost in our plantations or to feed the boiler that heats our plant. This recent, high-efficiency facility releases only water vapor and CO2 into the atmosphere. It is important to underline that Co2 being of plant origin, and not fossil, its dissemination in the atmosphere does not contribute to the increase of the greenhouse gas emission. The quantity released during combustion is in fact globally offset by the amount of atmospheric Co2 absorbed by the plant during its two years of growth. We do not use any chemicals at any stage of the reed manufacturing process.

I am hoping this helps you understand our concerns and our processes. Please feel free to email me directly with any other questions and thank you for writing Vandoren.

Sincerely,

Sylvain Carton

Vandoren Artist Relations and Product Specialist
www.vandoren.com / LA Studio / NYC Studio / Chicago Studio

 

[AddictedToSax]

Like most people I don't like to see so much waste in packaging. I'm not sure why Vandoren, for example, has to put each reed in a rigid plastic holder then put the holder in a Mylar looking plastic envelope then put all that into a cardboard box and if I recall correctly, wrap the box in clear plastic. Those old Rico reeds you have there prove that a simple paper box with some tissue to protect the reeds holds up just fine for many years.

 

[marton]

Yep. Companies that use oil based plastics might want to look into hemp based plastics for those sleeves. Hemp based plastic is bio-degradable. You can have your cake and eat it.

 

[turf3]

Yep. Companies that use oil based plastics might want to look into hemp based plastics for those sleeves. Hemp based plastic is bio-degradable. You can have your cake and eat it.

If drying out is a concern, why not put the reeds in the cardboard sleeve, then wrap the sleeve of four reeds (for example) in wax paper? I've recently started using a different brand of razor blades (yes, the regular double edge type) and each blade is wrapped in wax paper. It's not 100.00000% air tight but reeds in a wax paper envelope in a box are not going to dry out measurably during transport and storage. I also drink tea and a number of manufacturers supply tea bags in a box that's lined with a wax paper bag. I would think tea is more sensitive to degradation than sax reeds.

 

[milandro]

I don't understand why reeds would " dry" out when the first thing anyone does is to put them in a glass of water (or in their mouth) to hydrate them.

Also, reed has been already dried for at least 3 years before being transformed into a playing reed.

I think Vandoren simply applies the same marketing ( and a similar idea is to put reeds in a plastic individual container) concept which inspires some completely sterilized " fruit juices" to be sold in the refrigerated area of a supermarket because THAT suggest tat they are " fresh" and therefore can command a higher price.

Also ask yourself why they can give you a " free" plastic container and not a fee " reed holder" equally made of plastic?

25 reeds boxes? At the current reeds prices? Who would or could buy them?

This is another reason for packing individually, people buy 2 or 3 reeds because of their steep prices.

As for using any kind of plastic... any kind of carton is way better and way more economical than any kind of plastic, biodegradable or not.

 

[SoulMate]

As for using any kind of plastic... any kind of carton is way better and way more economical than any kind of plastic, biodegradable or not.

Very true.

Especially if you look at the "recycling" of plastics worldwide. Some plastics are recyclable but only a small percentage is of good quality and has enough potential to be resold at a certain benefit.
Most of the plastics are of poor quality, lots of contamination, which prevent them to be recycled and don't even make a small profit. These end up in China or Turkey and pollute the coastlines. They end up microscopically in our drinking water. Not to mention all the plastic debris that ends up in our oceans threatening wildlife.

Bottom line is that manufacturers need to make a profit for good or worse of the environment, mostly for the worse. The oil lobby makes it even harder.
We as consumers don't ask for plastic packaging. We get no say in the products we buy. And yet, we are charged to get rid of the packaging materials, hoping for a full recycling process.

 

[Grumps]

I still have an old, slim plastic case for a single reed that opens and shuts closed keeping the reed in place. I've had it for decades and it still holds my first choice soprano reed (though it's sized for an alto reed). Forgot who made it, and when specifically. But I hate the new plastic sleeves simply because they're not ideal for putting a reed back in and tend to collect in pockets of cases or gig bags. I suppose I could recycle them, but at least in these parts, recycling is a scam and they just dump it all with the regular trash. But that one plastic case I still use... really love that. They should start making them again.

 

[JohnsonPowerSax]

Marketing will (sadly) always be more important than sustainability. Reeds in fancy packages sell better and have a better reputation than "crappy cardboard."

I dgaf about plasticwrap and fancy holders, especially since I work them over to play and have my own reed holder (2, 6, and 10 reed holders respectively). I do not use the plastic sleeves that come with the reeds and feel that the old-school box method would be easier to keep track of anyway.

 

[milandro]

I am sure that it is possible to stick togheter the better single reed sleeves that I have seen (Rico and Rigotti) onto a piece of cork and make a reedholder, but it is still no solution for the waste