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I currently came across a very old tenor sax. The bell reads "Viking", with some nice scrolling. That is the only identification that I can find on this old beauty. Has anybody ever heard of a manufacturer that would use this stencil? If pictures are needed to identify this sax, I can send them. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

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Ok - here are some pictures for you too look at. Like I said, I am just stumped, so any and all information that you can give me will be great. If there are any specific photos that you need, please let me know.

I have also looked for the Lief Ericson, but can't find anything on it.
 

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Malerne brand made in Paris France circa 40-50's???????
 

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a picture of the entire horn left and right also would have helped. Yes it could be a Malerne BUT Rampone & Cazzani used some details which were identical to Malerne horns (this has ben established several times now) so , you could write them with pictures of the entire horn and serial number. The brace under the neck could be a later addition.
 

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Malerne brand made in Paris France circa 40-50's???????
100% correct....

...the hybrid Italian/French ones didn't have that "bow and arrow" neckbrace.....but Malerne Artists in the 50's, did....

In good physical and playing shape worth about $500.

If not playable shape, about $200....

These can be nice horns.....
 

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Jaye & Milandro do you either of you know who had right pinkie keys shaped like those we see in the 2nd set of pics Lori posted? I know I've seen them before, but I'm drawing a blank on which brand of sax. (I really wish I had a photographic memory.)
 

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Jaye & Milandro do you either of you know who had right pinkie keys shaped like those we see in the 2nd set of pics Lori posted? I know I've seen them before, but I'm drawing a blank on which brand of sax. (I really wish I had a photographic memory.)
Actually, I answered my own question. I was digging around in the saxpics galleries and found what I was looking for. It was the Malerne Artist. Even the neck brace is the same in some of the ones I was looking at (#9035, 9635, & example 2), as is the left pinkie cluster and octave lever. What isn't the same--besides the key guards--is the chromatic F# key. That definitely has an Orsi look to it.

I'm interested in what you were saying Jaye about there being French/Italian hybrids. Are there any examples of any of these on the 'Net anywhere that you know of?
 

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I don't think that there is any definitive answer to this but supposing that there was an actual synergy between Malerne and at least two different Italian makers is far fetched until proven. I would be inclined to think that several Italian companies either bought parts from Malerne ( which I think it is unlikely) or simply fabricated them by copying Malerne. At the time all this happened all these companies were producing many horns and were , to all intents and purposes , covering the middle market segment in the same region where the Chinese and Taiwanese companies are nowadays (along with the Bohemian companies). Copying each other was , I believe, commonplace as it is nowadays.
 

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Copying each other was , I believe, commonplace as it is nowadays.
Actually that makes sense now that you mention it Milandro. We see that a lot in the German horns of the same time. Kohlert and J. Keilwerth were famous for having horns that looked so much alike that it was hard to tell them apart. (The Pennsylvania Special being a great example of one such big confusion.) In general, D&J, JK, Kohlert, Hammerschmidt, Werner Roth (WERO), Hohner, et. al., they all had design features which borrowed very heavily from each other.
 

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While I appreciate the caution.....and agree that Italian elements show up on Malerne bodies, and less occasionally Malerne keywork shows up on Italian bodies...

...this horn doesn't show any of the typical attributes associated with the Hybrid Italo-French ones (different bellbraces, pinky tables, neckbraces, keyguard designs, and sometimes octave mechanisms).

Sometimes these stencils have some, sometimes all.

The bow and arrow brace disappeared in horns above around 11,000 serial....

I think it fair to say that any horn which illustrates ALL attributes of a horn engraved Malerne, is a Malerne as opposed to the Hybrid form....which sometimes show an odd conglomeration of elements.

This Viking one here one is, for all intents and purposes, an Artist stencil; a rather old one at that...and those were made by Malerne. Its # is very low...in the 3000's....much like one I used to have, below, which is also in the low serial #'s.

Unless the Viking reads "Italy" on it somewhere, it really has no signs of Italian parts, and I'd say there's no inclination to believe it to have been Italian in any way, as it has all of the attributes of an older Malerne, Paris...

Re: those Hybrids (of which this horn doesn't belong) I don't believe it to have been 'copying', incidentally. I believe "subcontracting" is a more appropriate term.
 

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I'm interested in what you were saying Jaye about there being French/Italian hybrids. Are there any examples of any of these on the 'Net anywhere that you know of?
There are some examples on saxpics...where he has grouped them in with "bonafide" Malernes. They were always stencils...here's one from there:

http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Malerne/stencils/04110-caravelle-brittany-robert_hogg/

Here's one, just for kicks. This was engraved Robert Martel but is 100% a Malerne body and even has the bow and arrow neckbrace....but the pinky table is NOT standard Malerne fare, but rather old Italian... and the keyguard design is more Martin-esque than anything R. Malerne ever did.

Several weeks after having this horn, Artstove (to whom I sold it) discovered an "Italy" stamp someplace quite hidden....

 
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