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I just pulled the 1,119,954 patent off the USPTO website which I found on my old Conn horns and it describes forming of the tone holes by extrusion rather than cutting holes and then soldering the flanges to them. This method allowed for much better tolerances in the tone hole positioning because all tone holes were extruded simultaneously and so there was much reduced chance that the tube would move and the next hole be offset. Also it took out the risk that the flange was not centered on the tone hole. Third, it allowed the use of materials like aluminum because the tone holes did not have to be soldered to the tube.

I assume the patent number is listed as acknowledgement of the patent.

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Ha! those bent wire pivots on TH&C's......absolute pain in the ***!......and totally unnecessary. Selmer (Paris) used ball and pin on side B/C and that never really stood up to much use either.
 

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Funny, after the discussion about the evolution of fake Mark VI's the other day I started pulling patent docs on Selmers. I was actually looking for the modern Mark VI layout that you see with the four rods all lined up on one side. I didn't find that one but I found one from 1935 that described how they moved the rods more to the middle of the horn so they wouldn't get tangled up in the player's clothing. What I found most interesting about it was the discussion on how they used different strength springs to balance the amount of pressure a player had to apply to close the pad on the toneholes. Then the light came on and I realized they were talking about balancing the action of the keys, hence the Balanced Action Selmer saxophone. Apparently before that invention the keys would require a different amount of finger pressure depending on the length of the rods and size of the pads etc. Selmer came up with the idea of balancing the amount of pressure required so each key would require the same or nearly the same amount of pressure. Pretty cool idea.
 

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Steinway has lots of patents and changed the design of the piano over 100 years ago.

Everyone incorporated these ideas and some went beyond.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Funny, after the discussion about the evolution of fake Mark VI's the other day I started pulling patent docs on Selmers. I was actually looking for the modern Mark VI layout that you see with the four rods all lined up on one side. I didn't find that one but I found one from 1935 that described how they moved the rods more to the middle of the horn so they wouldn't get tangled up in the player's clothing. What I found most interesting about it was the discussion on how they used different strength springs to balance the amount of pressure a player had to apply to close the pad on the toneholes. Then the light came on and I realized they were talking about balancing the action of the keys, hence the Balanced Action Selmer saxophone. Apparently before that invention the keys would require a different amount of finger pressure depending on the length of the rods and size of the pads etc. Selmer came up with the idea of balancing the amount of pressure required so each key would require the same or nearly the same amount of pressure. Pretty cool idea.
I believe you mean the 2,710,558 patent:
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Cool. Here are the patents listed on my TH&C.
The '593 is all about ergonomics: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2203593.html

This invention relates to musical instruments and more particularly to improvements in saxophones.

An object of this invention is to provide a saxophone wherein the valves in the lower register are so positioned that they will not contact with the clothes of the player.

Another object of this invention is to provide an instrument of this kind wherein an improved operating means is provided for the valves in the lower register.

A further object of this invention is to provide an instrument of this kind wherein the placement of the valves in the lower register will eliminate the necessity of clothing guards, thus reducing the weight of the instrument.

A still further object of this invention aims to provide a saxophone wherein the valves in the lower register can be readily operated by pressure of a little finger and wherein the lower valves are connected to the operating keys through a linkage rather than through a direct connection as is at present the case.

(It is kind of funny how these patents tell a story - what were they really thinking?)
 

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I have always thought the 1914 patent was for drawn and rolled tone holes and the 1915 was for straight drawn holes. Is that correct?
 

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No, the '954 (1914) patent is for the principle of manufacturing drawn holes only. You need to read the claims to see what is actually protected and they are very straight-forward.

If you think about it, the other sequence would actually not be possible because drawn and rolled tone holes already have the disclosure of drawn tone holes in them, so they would no longer be patentable. I am just looking at 1,153,489 (the "1915" patent) and there is nothing in the claims that would indicate rolled tone holes in the way the term is used now, instead it is a disclosure of "rolling" a reduced diameter hole into a final diameter flange, in other words, gradually increasing the diameter untill it reaches its final shape.
 

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No, the '954 (1914) patent is for the principle of manufacturing drawn holes only. You need to read the claims to see what is actually protected and they are very straight-forward.

If you think about it, the other sequence would actually not be possible because drawn and rolled tone holes already have the disclosure of drawn tone holes in them, so they would no longer be patentable. I am just looking at 1,153,489 (the "1915" patent) and there is nothing in the claims that would indicate rolled tone holes in the way the term is used now, instead it is a disclosure of "rolling" a reduced diameter hole into a final diameter flange, in other words, gradually increasing the diameter untill it reaches its final shape.
Interesting. All of the 1914 patent horns I have seen in the past 50 years have had rolled tone holes and all of the 1915 patent horns have had straight holes. I wonder what the 1915 patent is for.
 

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Interesting. All of the 1914 patent horns I have seen in the past 50 years have had rolled tone holes and all of the 1915 patent horns have had straight holes. I wonder what the 1915 patent is for.
Bruce, like I mentioned above US 1,153,489 (the "1915" patent) discloses a method t manufacture the extruded tone holes by punching a small hole and then inserting a tool that rotates along the perimeter of the cutout to raise the flanges by rolling inside and gradually pushing the walls up. It is just a different method of fabricating the tone holes instead of just punching them up. It appears way more laborious than the simple extrusion since every tone hole needs to be expanded individually. Probably Dr.G would know more about that.

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