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Hi guys,

I found this Conn NW (59xxx) on eBay and was wondering if anyone might know anything about it.
The G key covers two small tone holes as opposed to one large one, there is an extra key roller, and one of the palm keys has been curved around the other keys.
On the side of the case, the previous owner wrote "Al Carter Old Conn".

Never seen anything like this horn. Any thoughts?

View attachment 240376 View attachment 240378 View attachment 240380
 

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It's just a very early New Wonder 1. Sometimes people think that all horns of a given model are exactly the same, but that isn't necessarily true...there was some evolution in design. The change from dual small G pads to a larger single pad is an example of that. Looks like this one also pre-dates rolled tone holes. probably other differences as well between this and a later NW1. Nothing particularly special about it though...just a more dated version.
 

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Gotta say I haven't seen the double roller on the C# before on a Conn...interesting. But yeah, nothing really 'rare' there.

Be careful or NW I's and II's as far as Altos go; their interior geometries (bow designs, really) give them a propensity to be unstable (gurgling/motorboating) on the low B particularly.

Resolvable by throwing a wine cork or mouthpiece cap down the bell, or permanently affixing a piece of brass tubing inside the bow....but some owners just do not prefer any of those solutions....they prefer a non-gurgling sax.
 

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Gotta say I haven't seen the double roller on the C# before on a Conn...interesting. But yeah, nothing really 'rare' there.

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All 12Ms have those two rollers on the low C# key.

I have seen but never played a few New Wonders that also have it. I prefer that layout to all others as it gives you a smooth transition from C# to Bb.

As to the OP's question, I can only quote Andrew N. White: "It's made differently."
 

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Be careful or NW I's and II's as far as Altos go; their interior geometries (bow designs, really) give them a propensity to be unstable (gurgling/motorboating) on the low B particularly.

Resolvable by throwing a wine cork or mouthpiece cap down the bell, .....
Cork tossing has also been attributed to Selmers Mark 6 altos. I've had 2 NW2 altos and yes, I have had a little gurgling. But I did trace the cause to my arrogantly believing that I could actually balance the alternate Eb. I got close and sometimes it worked. When I corked down the trill key, no mo' gurgle.

So, while I convey my greeting to Jaye, I don't agree that New Wonder altos gurgle any more than othe horns.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks all, I did not think about the possibility of the model evolving.
I normally play on a NW I, S/N 94*** and it does have a bit of a gurgling problem. The likely suspect for me though, are the leaky pads on my B & Bb. I can't float them into place because the rolled tone holes are uneven...
 

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Regarding the low B gurgle, New Wonders ARE more prone due to the reasons that Jaye stated. Short bow Selmer altos had a similar issue that was corrected by a Selmer after market baffle which was placed on the top side of the bow. I've noticed, as have many others, that the Conns work better with some internal volume removed from the bottom of the bow directly under the low C tonehole. A wine cork is the standard remedy, though I used a flattened out quarter that's permanently installed to stabilize the note on my horn.

I've noticed that there's another variable that may come into play, and that involves your mouthpiece, and the position of the microtuner. The latter which was designed to have the mouthpiece pushed in as far as it can go so that it's flush with the tuning cylinder. When I'm using large pieces with a longer shank, I've noticed that I have to pull the micro-tuner out not just to tune the note, but to also stabilize the low B. Pulling the mouthpiece out on the cork without adjusting the tuner also seems to destabilize the note. Given how the tuner works, I'm wondering if the dimensions of the bore from the mouthpiece to the neck also impacts the low B. It would seem to. I wrapped paper around the cork to rule out that the anomaly was caused by a leak between the mouthpiece and cork. I'm wondering if the low B gurgle exists, or exists to the same extent, with non micro-tuner necks. One of these days, I'll hunt down a cheap Pan Am neck to find out for certain.
 

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I've noticed that there's another variable that may come into play, and that involves your mouthpiece, and the position of the microtuner. The latter which was designed to have the mouthpiece pushed in as far as it can go so that it's flush with the tuning cylinder. When I'm using large pieces with a longer shank, I've noticed that I have to pull the micro-tuner out not just to tune the note, but to also stabilize the low B. Pulling the mouthpiece out on the cork without adjusting the tuner also seems to destabilize the note. Given how the tuner works, I'm wondering if the dimensions of the bore from the mouthpiece to the neck also impacts the low B. It would seem to..
Yes, I have also noticed the effect of the micro-tuner on the warble. I use a fairly large mouthpiece and there seems to be a "sweet spot" on the micro-tuner for me, generally almost all the way out. The neck that came with this particular NW did not have a micro tuner, we'll see if that changes anything once I give it a good wash and re-pad.
 

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Yes, I have also noticed the effect of the micro-tuner on the warble. I use a fairly large mouthpiece and there seems to be a "sweet spot" on the micro-tuner for me, generally almost all the way out. The neck that came with this particular NW did not have a micro tuner, we'll see if that changes anything once I give it a good wash and re-pad.
See, I think that the issue is that most players don't understand the tuner at all. I thought that mine was broken for many years until I realized that it WAS moving. It wasn't until I took it apart until I realized that it wasn't stripped, and wasn't leaking. The threads are so fine that I didn't realize that it was actually moving as I was turning it. Conn wasn't kidding when they said "micro".
 
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