[sushidushi]

It is difficult to explain this, but I have had my saxophone (cheap Chinese) for a few weeks, so am very much at the beginner stage. I think I have been doing reasonably well, but this evening and yesterday I have been getting an odd sound when playing G with the usual three left hand fingers and the octave key. It sounds raspy or something - like the saxophone is trying to play more than one note at the same time. Does that make sense? I occasionally squeak with other notes too, but it happens most with that G. It is one of the highest notes I have tried to play so far.

From my poor description, is anyone able to suggest what it might be, please...? I have tried changing the reed, and none of the keys are sticking, as far as I can see.

 

[Stephen Howard]

You need to check that the octave key is functioning propery.

There are two tiny pads associated with the octave key mechanism. One is on the body near the top of the horn - just below the crook (or neck) socket - the other sits on top of the crook.
With the horn assembled, finger a G - and then keep an eye on the body octave key pad. Now press the octave key (while still hold the G fingering) - you should see the body octave key pad rise.
Now lift your left hand third finger (so that you're now fingering an octave A). You should see the body octave key close and the crook pad open.
If you alternate the fingering between octave G and A you will be able to see the rise and fall of each octave key pad.
If either pad doesn't open or doesn't fully close, then you have a problem.

You might also be fighting with the mouthpiece. The one that comes supplied with many new horns, especially Ultra-Cheap ones, is often next to useless.
Have a look at this article for more info:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/mouthpieces.htm

Regards,

 

[milandro]

it could very be what Stephen wrote or the fact that G and the Low D (in my experience especially in a tenor) when using the octave key and playing soft but without sufficient breath support (the scourge of every beginner ) tend to break into their harmonics and in real terms you might be producing a multi-phonic sound with at least three different sounds (the base note in the lower octave, the octave note and the 5th).
After checking the horn octave keys and if everything is ok, maybe you want to look into this possibility.
Should that be the case you need to do two things (which are good things to do anyway) make sure that your breath support is increased by being aware of your diaphragm and making sure that you use that when you emit your air ( wear a belt to help make you aware of the belly muscles being used while pushing out the air, expand and contract your belly muscles when inhaling and exhaling, don't lift up your shoulders, as opposed to expanding your belly, taking air in because if you do you it means that you are not using your diaphragm to breathe), also try to relax your tongue and open your throat when blowing out.
this is Bert Wilson

Showing his mastery at playing multiphonics and talking of the fact that he discovered them by mistake

 

[sushidushi]

Many thanks to you both. I will look at the sax closely later. I know the key on top of the crook is opening and closing, but I wasn't aware of the other one...! I am using a Hite Premiere mouthpiece, which should be fine, I think, but I will also try the factory one to eee if that makes any difference at all.

Thanks again. I will report back later.

 

[bandmommy]

Did you get your sax from a shop or off the internet ie ebay?
Has it been to a tech to be sure nothing is in need of adjusting?
There is nothing worse than being a beginner with no knowledge of the instrument and having one that is full of leaks.
Take it in and have it checked out.

 

[sushidushi]

I did indeed get the sax from an online retailer - music123, which is connected to Musician's Friend. It was a risk, but I knew that.

The two octave keys do seem to open and close as Mr Howard described. That isn't to say that there aren't any leaks, but everything looks all right. I did dry the pads with some high-powed cleaning papers after playing this evening and will see if that makes any difference.

I didn't try the stock mouthpiece this evening, but I did play around with the ligature a bit. It might have been my imagination, but the multiphonic effect seemed to be less frequent when I loosened the ligature (a Rovner of some sort) and pushed it bugger back on the mouthpiece - so more of the reed was able to vibrate. Is that perhaps related to the odd noise...?

I also noticed today, before playing, that the inside of my lower lip was a bit sore, further down from the mouth than I thought it ought to be. So perhaps I in some way changed my embouchure and that accounted for the noise?

I now see that there are so many variables, and I suppose I might need to find a teacher for at least a while to ensure that I don't develop too many bad habits. The money is the problem there...

 

[Nefertiti]

This happens many times when there isn't enough breath support. Try blowing harder and see if it goes away. 9 times out of 10 when this happens with students I tell them to blow harder and it goes away..........

 

[sushidushi]

I must try that - thanks! I thought I might be blowing too hard, if anything. One related question. If one blues harder, how does one play softly and without making the odd noises...?

 

[milandro]

......by supporting your blowing action with the muscles of your belly

 

[bandmommy]

I still think the sax needs to go in for a check up. Just because everything 'looks all right' doesn't mean there aren't issues that are causing big problems. Any instrument purchased online should get checked out ASAP. Especially if it's from what I would call a 'big box' dealer and not a shop with a tech on site.
You should be able to play softly and not have a problem with 'odd noises' if everything is as it should be.

 

[kavala]

This is a common problem and if you search here for G or G# you will
see many threads devoted to this subject.

The general consensus is that it is because of the compromise with the
octave vent placements.

Play the note and when it splits, experiment with your embrouchure and
blowing until it goes away. Eventually it will not happen (unless you want
it to).

 

[DXCamp]

sushidushi,

Hoping you can find a repair tech willing to put the instrument into decent playing condition. I say nickel and dimer because odds are that your horn might go out of adjustment quicker than expected regardless of a tech's best efforts.

 

[sushidushi]

Thanks again, everyone.

I will try to find someone who can check the horn itself to see if the problem lies with the sax rather than the novice trying to play it.

I played around with the placement of the ligature earlier to see if that made any difference. It seemed that if I moved the ligature closer to the opening of the mouthpiece, the odd sounds I have attempted to describe were very much less frequent, and the overall sound was generally more mellow and easier to control. Does that seem likely, or is it more probable that there were other factors in play?

 

[bandmommy]

It could be part of the problem. Since you are a novice it's always best to rule out any problems with the instrument.
That way you know if it really IS you.

 

[sushidushi]

I would miss it terribly though... :-D

I must also try it with the standard ligature rather than the Rovner, as the reed seems to move slightly sometimes. But perhaps I am looking too hard for a reason that has a cheap solution and one that would mean not having to be without it.

 

[DXCamp]

Simple tips such as inspecting the reed for small splits or cracks and how it lays on the mouthpiece as well as the ligature placdment won't cost you a dime out of pocket. Reeds are relatively inexpensive and you might also consider an emergency back up, just in case.

 

[sushidushi]

An emergency back up sax, you mean? I have four or so reeds on the go - the cheap thing that came with the sax and a few Vandoren in strength 2, which I am guessing should be all right for a beginner. Do you think it would be sensible tourney a different make or strength if reed, ir would it he better just to stock with what I've got for now?

 

[Nefertiti]

Did you try blowing harder? Did it go away?

 

[DXCamp]

Reeds of course. Soft reeds are generally recommended for beginners. 2's are hard enough for you to stick with for now. Careful that you don't put your bottom teeth on the reed while playing.

 

[sushidushi]

Yes, I tried blowing harder and softer, as Nefertiti suggested, playing with the placement of the ligature, using the original ligature, and tried to be conscious of using my diaphragm, as suggested by milandro, and this evening I found that I wasn't using so much jaw pressure, which helped the sore mouth rather - and I was playing the higher G with no problem once the reed was really wet.
I am not sure which pieces of all your advice helped, but many thanks again to you all. I hope I can replicate the improved tone and so on tomorrow...!