[saxshooter]

Thought this was an interesting article on how the Future of Music Coalition is doing a multi-part study called the Artist Revenue Streams project, where they investigate how many different types of U.S.-based musicians generate income.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/ablogsupre...w-do-jazz-musicians-make-money?sc=tw&cc=share

NPR.com has a great jazz section worth checking out.

 

[dogster]

what income ? lol

 

[KeithL]

The first thing they might want to do is fix the link to the survey.

 

[Nefertiti]

The first thing they might want to do is fix the link to the survey.

Why? I clicked on it and filled out the survey.............

 

[bruce bailey]

Did you hear about the jazz musician who won $5million in the lottery?
He kept playing gigs until he was broke.....

 

[Alexk]

A jazz sax player I knew was a Coca Cola sales rep in the area.
A drummer I worked with owned a music store.
A bassist around my area was a chemist/Pharmacist.
One of the top keyboardists in the area taught piano.
Two trumpet guys were both welders.

 

[RandyJ]

Just a while back the ASCAP newsletter asked us to do the survey.

 

[KeithL]

Why? I clicked on it and filled out the survey.............

It wasn't working last night when I tried it - at the top of the page it said something like "Article or Page Unavailable" - it appears to be fixed now.

 

[AMASAX]

Jazz and $money$ don't belong in the same sentence. Or, paragraph, for that matter. Or, the same lifetime, when you get down to it.

One of the great mis-leadings of today: music schools attract students cuz music is fun. Students get out and find there's two types of jobs: 1) $50+free beer, playing until 2:00am Fri/Sat nites 2) going onto more schooling, in hopes of getting a job at a university that attracts students cuz music is fun.

Not much in that circle that attracts money from the pubic, is there?

These days, the only practical reason to get a music degree is to become a public school teacher(great jobs that don't pay a lot and are best suited to a particular type of personality that the music student may or may not have). Other than that, I'd only recommend a music degree if one has some other occupation to fall back on for $$$.

Making a living from live music died a long slow death based upon two event time periods and is pretty much gone now:

* 1930-ish, when theater owners nation-wide fired their entire music band/orchestra staffs once talking movies came out. Read up on that one; BIG deal at the time.

* after WWII to the mid-1950s: economics after WWII discouraged Big Bands, TV started cranking up, beginning in 1948(if it's Tuesday, it's "Uncle Milty" night), and Elvis and Rock & Roll crew put the final stake in the heart of jazz/dance band music support from the general public.

The only thing keeping jazz, orchestral and other live music in existence is raw numbers - smaller & smaller percentage of the public, but a larger population base to work from guarantees some number of people interested in it. That, along with some super small percentage of people with actual musical taste and background, who don't wanna settle for laugh tracks and fake drums on TV.

 

[Carl H.]

One of the great mis-leadings of today: music schools attract students cuz music is fun. Students get out and find there's two types of jobs: 1) $50+free beer, playing until 2:00am Fri/Sat nites 2) going onto more schooling, in hopes of getting a job at a university that attracts students cuz music is fun.

There is also the symphony orchestra circuit. Far better money than the bar gigs, and mostly better hours too. But it IS work, hard work.

 

[AMASAX]

There is also the symphony orchestra circuit. Far better money than the bar gigs, and mostly better hours too. But it IS work, hard work.

Yup, but next to impossible to get into. I don't know the numbers -today-, but a few years ago there were ~45 'full time' orchestras in the U.S. Retire at 60 or 65. You do the math; way worse than things like the NFL, where you can count on openings by age 25-30 cuz of getting their brains bashed in on the football field.

I've played in a good regional orchestra for 30+ years(just finished a Fri/Sat concert run last night, coincidentally) and I can assure you that doing so for a full time job is -not- anything like most people think it is. Not nearly the fun and inspiring job that it's often portrayed to be...not to mention only the top tier groups pay real money. You'd better like scrounging side gigs, teaching lessons, etc., if you wanna pay both the mortgage -and- the vittles bill.

 

[Carl H.]

I had 5 regional orchestras, private lessons, a music school and a college teaching gig. Never once worked a bar gig during that time. I took the teaching gigs, because friends asked me to, I never interviewed either, I was hired based on my playing. Made more playing than teaching, but the teaching kept me busy during the day so I didn't get into (much) trouble. Before fuel prices went up, there was decent money on the symphony circuit.

Since relocating to MN, I have cut down seriously on the gigging and do no teaching. I limit myself to my regular coffee house gig and a few other occasional gigs with a few different bands. Not interested in traveling unless the money is STUPID good.

The symphony paid MUCH better for less of a time commitment, but the local bar stuff is so easy to pick up and the repertoire required is considerably more simple.

 

[Wagspdx]

Jazz and $money$ don't belong in the same sentence. Or, paragraph, for that matter. Or, the same lifetime, when you get down to it.

One of the great mis-leadings of today: music schools attract students cuz music is fun. Students get out and find there's two types of jobs: 1) $50+free beer, playing until 2:00am Fri/Sat nites 2) going onto more schooling, in hopes of getting a job at a university that attracts students cuz music is fun.

Not much in that circle that attracts money from the pubic, is there?

These days, the only practical reason to get a music degree is to become a public school teacher(great jobs that don't pay a lot and are best suited to a particular type of personality that the music student may or may not have). Other than that, I'd only recommend a music degree if one has some other occupation to fall back on for $$$.

Making a living from live music died a long slow death based upon two event time periods and is pretty much gone now:

* 1930-ish, when theater owners nation-wide fired their entire music band/orchestra staffs once talking movies came out. Read up on that one; BIG deal at the time.

* after WWII to the mid-1950s: economics after WWII discouraged Big Bands, TV started cranking up, beginning in 1948(if it's Tuesday, it's "Uncle Milty" night), and Elvis and Rock & Roll crew put the final stake in the heart of jazz/dance band music support from the general public.

The only thing keeping jazz, orchestral and other live music in existence is raw numbers - smaller & smaller percentage of the public, but a larger population base to work from guarantees some number of people interested in it. That, along with some super small percentage of people with actual musical taste and background, who don't wanna settle for laugh tracks and fake drums on TV.

Absolutely, that covers the jazz life. As for the working musician, there was a viable club scene up until the mid to late 80's. I made a pretty decent living starting early 70's, for around 10 to 12 years, just gigging. We all were in the Musician's Union. There was some traveling early on but most of it was in town. Some of it was sitting in the same club for up to a year playing 5 or 6 nights a week, other stuff was working circuits, playing a couple weeks at a time and moving on. Towards the end it was solid weekend work playing casuals - weddings, corporate gigs, private clubs, Elks, Yacht Club, etc - then filling in week nights with piano bars, ballet classes, etc. The last few years devolved into backing various Elvi and wanna be's for less and less $$$ and more and more hassle.

I think the death knell of the working musician was brought about by tougher drunk driving laws, the aging of the baby boomers, and technology that allowed for smaller and smaller groups. Now everyone is essentially giving it away for free and the quality of the musicianship has suffered greatly.

 

[1saxman]

'Making a living from live music died a long slow death based upon two event time periods and is pretty much gone now:'

This is actually not true. It may be true for jazz (always was) but there are tons of musicians making money playing live. But if you're a jazz snob who won't lower himself to play a gig and put your heart into it, well, even that won't work. I've lived on music a few times during the last fifty years, but now that I'm retired from my day gig, music supplements my income. I play about 40-50 jobs a year, but there is a locally-based group that is a regional act, playing about 90 gigs a year, and several of them are full-time musicians. One of them also owns a music store and the rest have regular jobs, although I have no idea how they keep them. Everybody in my band, which is very similar to the regional act except we usually just play weekends, has a regular job except me. The band owner runs a multi-million $ contracting business. These two bands I'm talking about get $2K to $10K for a show. The other guys do more traveling than us, but it's all by road. I filled in for their sax player once and they had six gigs in eight days. My pay was about $1K. Both bands play what we call 'party music' here in the South - Motown, Beach, current stuff that we can use, etc., and a big PA, lights, outfits and just good old-fashioned crowd-pleasing favorites and a little show. We just started doing the Huey Lewis 'Heart of R&R', but the live version with the 'Tower of Power' horns. I play the tenor ride and the harmonica part plus the tenor horn part. We will use the charts on a new song for a few times, then it has to be memorized. We revisit long-time numbers about twice a year with the charts just to prevent 'parts-drift'. We even have a decent arrangement of 'In the Mood'. We have two saxes, a 'bone and a trumpet, so we can arrange anything and sell it, even big-band, to some extent. So, while it's not the house gig on 'Dancing With The Stars' (I have a lot of respect for those guys) it's not exactly a garage band either. And there's nothing to prevent any of us from taking a jazz gig now and then on the side, but there basically is no jazz culture here, even with several major colleges/universities in the area with vibrant jazz programs. Those guys that stay around here wind up playing in the kinds of bands I'm talking about and doing 'jazz' on the side for tips.

 

[gary]

'Making a living from live music died a long slow death based upon two event time periods and is pretty much gone now:'

This is actually not true. It may be true for jazz (always was) but there are tons of musicians making money playing live. But if you're a jazz snob who won't lower himself to play a gig and put your heart into it, well, even that won't work.

I've lived on music a few times during the last fifty years, but now that I'm retired from my day gig, music supplements my income. I play about 40-50 jobs a year, but there is a locally-based group that is a regional act, playing about 90 gigs a year, and several of them are full-time musicians. One of them also owns a music store and the rest have regular jobs, although I have no idea how they keep them.

Everybody in my band, which is very similar to the regional act except we usually just play weekends, has a regular job except me. The band owner runs a multi-million $ contracting business. These two bands I'm talking about get $2K to $10K for a show. The other guys do more traveling than us, but it's all by road. I filled in for their sax player once and they had six gigs in eight days. My pay was about $1K.

Both bands play what we call 'party music' here in the South - Motown, Beach, current stuff that we can use, etc., and a big PA, lights, outfits and just good old-fashioned crowd-pleasing favorites and a little show. We just started doing the Huey Lewis 'Heart of R&R', but the live version with the 'Tower of Power' horns. I play the tenor ride and the harmonica part plus the tenor horn part. We will use the charts on a new song for a few times, then it has to be memorized. We revisit long-time numbers about twice a year with the charts just to prevent 'parts-drift'. We even have a decent arrangement of 'In the Mood'. We have two saxes, a 'bone and a trumpet, so we can arrange anything and sell it, even big-band, to some extent.

So, while it's not the house gig on 'Dancing With The Stars' (I have a lot of respect for those guys) it's not exactly a garage band either. And there's nothing to prevent any of us from taking a jazz gig now and then on the side, but there basically is no jazz culture here, even with several major colleges/universities in the area with vibrant jazz programs. Those guys that stay around here wind up playing in the kinds of bands I'm talking about and doing 'jazz' on the side for tips.

1saxman, what are you talking about? You dispute the poster's comments, "Making a living from live music died a long slow death based upon two event time periods and is pretty much gone now:" and then proceed to give as support for your statement, examples of people who all have day jobs to sustain them. Or did I read your post wrong?

BTW - run-on paragraphs are hell to read. It sure would be thoughtful if you could break yours down into smaller units. thanks. ;-)

 

[AMASAX]

+1 Yeah, 1saxman mentioned how most(all?) besides him have days jobs. I can assure you, gigs involving a large band for $2-10k are ultra rare. Ask the contracting dude about that. Probably corporate gigs(too expensive for individuals and club owners) and 1saxman's lucky enough to play in the contractor's pet band.

If there was viable way to make consistent, livable, real money playing music these days, SOTW would have a lot of posts about it. Unfortunately, 99% of what's on this board is about the same old $50+beer I referred to earlier.

Too bad; not what I'd prefer, but just the way it is these days.

And, I'll stick by my earlier post; it -is- actually true. Read up a bit or talk to any 85+ year old cats; they'll clue you in. I played in a dance band for 10 years back in the 70's-80's with these kind of guys and they pretty much all hated Elvis & early TV cuz it ruined their lives when they were young and goin' places. That's where I first heard the best phrase to date about the live music biz: "Music's the world's best hobby and the world's worst profession."