[nihongorox19]

So, I have looked up some articles regarding what these finishes would do to the sound of a saxophone, but I am still curious as to which would be better. I'm going to be getting a Venus curved soprano saxophone and they have these two finishes currently in stock in their ebay store. I would like a more classical sound, but versatile in case I decide to do some jazz. It seems like the rose brass would make the sound more rich? But the nickel might make the sound bright? Or does finish even effect the sound at all? I am so confused over this... [rolleyes] Thanks for any responses!

 

[hakukani]

Finish has nothing to do with sound.

Here's a good article on sax acoustics:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/saxacoustics.html

 

[swperry1]

Are we in for a heated debate on this one? opcorn:
Can we be nice about it? :grouphug:

Seriously though...If the Venus is where your heart (and wallet) is, get the one that looks the best to you. Spend the money to get a really good new horn set-up from your local tech, it will be worth it. For around $450 you can have a good playing and good looking sax.

I wanted a cheap soprano and was surprised how nice the one I got sounded. I got the rose brass, and it looked really nice! Played well right out of the box. Surprisingly easy to play in tune considering I haven't touched a soprano in about two years.

Unfortunately there was a quality control issue with the neck, so I returned it. The company that sells them on eBay called musicalwheel was great to deal with, and processed my return immediately after receiving my return. I have finally decided (I think) that I really don't want to play soprano right now...

I have an OttoLink Tone Edge for sale that sounded really good on it if you are interested. Here is the link:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?157320-FS-Otto-Link-tone-edge-soprano

Good luck to you!
S.

 

[nihongorox19]

hakukani- Thank you for the article! From what I've read of it so far, it seems really interesting. I find it so interesting about how some people think that a finish will affect sound, yet others think that it makes no difference.

swperry1- This might sound like an odd question but how "pink" is the rose brass? Musical Wheel has been really gret about answering my questions quickly and have been very helpful. I look forward to buying a sax from them. I have been leaning more towards the rose brass just because it is a very unique finish. I might be interested in that mouthpiece, but I'm not sure... I have a tone edge for my tenor and I absolutely love it. But I hated it on alto... I really think I need to try some mouthpieces at my local music shop to see what I like.

Thank you both for your informative responses!

 

[MartinMusicMan]

oh lord, are we going to start up the finish and effect on sound thing again? please do a search and see if you can go through the whole discussion in an old thread.

Personally, I think Rose Brass sounds more like the name of a stripper than a finish for a saxophone. I'd go with Nickel.

 

[nihongorox19]

I did do a search on this and the topic of finish affecting sound has really been beaten to death. I found lots of information supporting both sides... I wanted to see what other people thought about this.

 

[swperry1]

It really didn't seem pink to me. I just checked out the eBay listing again, and the two pictures on the bottom of the ad (bottom 2/3rds of sax laying on side, and close-up of upper stack keys) are very accurate to the actual color as it looked in person. It was more like a light copper coloring. It looked great in contrast to the nickel plate keys.

Good idea to try out mouthpieces, the one it comes with is very blah. If you try out a new tone edge and like it but want to save a few bucks, just let me know.
S.

 

[Hr7star]

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?122191-Do-you-believe-that-a-sax-s-finish-including-stones-added-to-the-key-work-or-body-affect-the-tone&highlight=material+finish+affect+tone

Poll here from 2009. 30% for material affecting tone and 70% against. Wonder if that's changed?

I did do a search on this and the topic of finish affecting sound has really been beaten to death. I found lots of information supporting both sides... I wanted to see what other people thought about this.

I don't remember reading anything particularly compelling in support of material affecting tone.
Must have missed that post.

 

[JayeLID]

If you MUST get the Venus....get Nickel.

At least it looks classy, sorta.....

 

[milandro]

.......... I found lots of information supporting both sides... I wanted to see what other people thought about this.

I never found any of what I would call " information" supporting the side of " finish matters" , at most they are subjective impressions unsupported by any science and always referring to the colour of the metal being related to the " temperature" (warm or cold) of the sound.

But if that is " information" then you are right, there is plenty of that........but I cal it Taurus waste

 

[nihongorox19]

I never found any of what I would call " information" supporting the side of " finish matters" , at most they are subjective impressions unsupported by any science and always referring to the colour of the metal being related to the " temperature" (warm or cold) of the sound.

I bought a tenor saxophone a year or two back, so I went to my local music shops top see what they have to offer. I was interested in a Yamaha custom z tenor. And the owner of the store was encouraging me to get the silver plated one over the black lacquer because he said it would sound better. I ended up getting neither, I got a Kessler black nickel tenor for half the price of the Yamahas. I also have many friends who support the idea that finish affects sound. But after these responses and reading some more articles, I'm beginning to see that it really doesn't seem to effect the sound at all....

 

[milandro]

........after these responses and reading some more articles, I'm beginning to see that it really doesn't seem to effect the sound at all....

Hallelujah!!

 

[Joe Jazz]

Get the nickel plated finish so the sloppy soldering(if any)will be covered up...and that way acid bleed shouldn't be a problem either...

 

[Buck Laughlin]

I would go with the rose brass. I have an Antigua soprano made with a red brass alloy (higher copper content) for a warmer tone. I like it a lot. And it looks great, too!

 

[Garrett]

I used to be of the staunch opinion that the finish didn't matter but when I was trying out sopranos in Houli I found that the red brass versions (one piece body tube of 85% copper/15%zinc) consistently played slightly better than the cartridge brass (70% copper/30% zinc). Of course this is my opinion of what "better" means. But because of this all of our pro model sopranos whether raw, lacquered, or plated have a body tubes of red brass (we still use the harder cartridge brass for the keywork). I actually wanted the cartridge brass to play exactly the same because the red brass made our sopranos more expensive per unit due to the higher copper cost. Here is my first possibly bogus theory:

I think there are other factors at work like the difference of density in the metal in two identical 7mm body tubes one made from cartridge and the other from red brass. A thinner or less dense metal body tube may pick up more sympathetic vibrations from the vibrating air column. The vibrating air column would then lose energy as it rattles the metal tube. It would transmit the energy to the outside of the body tube instead of the energy traveling further down the inside of the tube. A gold, silver, or nickel plated body tube would be also thicker because of the added metal and therefore be less apt to vibrate sympathetically with the air column. The layered dissimilar plated metal may also be a factor in vibration and structural integrity especially after the body tube has many large toneholes pulled through it.

The second possibly bogus theory is that the red brass is softer and more workable so that the manufacturers find it easier to build the saxophones more accurately.

The fact remains that for me there was a consistent noticeable playing difference between the red brass and cartridge brass on the many identical sopranos I tested.

 

[nihongorox19]

The fact remains that for me there was a consistent noticeable playing difference between the red brass and cartridge brass on the many identical sopranos I tested.

I've heard about red brass making a saxophone play better... I find it very interesting that only 15% more copper could make a noticeable difference.

I decided to order the rose brass soprano. If I hate the finish, then I can return it and get a nickel one.

 

[Dave Dolson]

There is a difference between the issues of FINISH vs. MATERIAL. I don't believe the finish matters as to how a saxophone plays or sounds (presence or absence of lacquer or plating). I do believe, based on my experiences with similar models (e.g., Yanigisawa sopranos in lacquered brass vs. Lacquered bronze; Buescher TT sops in silver- plate with and without lacquer) that material from which a saxophone is made MAY have some limited effect on the horn's tone. Dave

 

[nihongorox19]

I got my soprano on Friday. I was so surprised by the finish. It looks really nice! It doesn't look pink, but more like a new or polished penny. And it has a little engraving on it. I played it and it plays well from top to bottom. I don't like the mouthpiece it came with so I'm going to try some out at my local music shop.

I have an OttoLink Tone Edge for sale that sounded really good on it if you are interested.

I'm going to specifically ask to try one of those when I do go and see how I like it. If I do like it then I will definitely buy it from you. Thanks!

 

[kymarto]

The science is quite clear on this: NO difference from either finish or material if all other factors remain equal.

 

[milandro]

the only convincing argument that I've ever heard about the debate on the material's influence on sound was what Martinmod wrote some time ago on the influence that different material could give to the radius of the base of the tonehole when this are pulled (of course this has no influence on braised or soldered toneholes