[Henning1]

Hello, I am changing lots of pads on a Martin stencil C sax. Now wondering, are there any problems or might there be so, in using plain modern leather brown Selmer look alike pads (don´t know exactly what brand they are) with brown plastic resos?

The pads (still) on the sax are very soft filt with brown skin (but hardened) and no acoustic plates.

regards

 

[Smokey613]

I just purchased an old King C Melody that had repadded. The pads are too thick and do not seal propely and there are no resonators. Just somethingto be aware of. Not all pads are the same thickness.

 

[bmatney]

I used the precision pads from MusicMedic on my Conn C-mel and had no problems with them.

 

[Henning1]

As far I know, both the Conn and the King C melodies had drawn toneholes. But the Martins have the toneholes soldered on to the body. Thereby the tonehole edges are much thicker then nowadays and, expectedly so compared to the other C mels. Thereof one of the reasons for my question.

cheers & regards

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

It is the thickness of the pads that is most relevant.

If you use thinner than the originals, you need more shellac (or other glue) packing. If they are thicker, then you have a messy job ahead, tilting pads at odd angles in the key cups. For either, accommodation can alternatively be achieved by altering key cup alignment.

If they are too much too thick, then they are completely unsuitable.

If you are using firmer than original felt, then this may demand more levelled tone holes in order to get a good result. Firm felt is less accommodating, but has a more snappy action and possibly a better tone/volume/response.

So it depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about it.

 

[Henning1]

So it depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about it.

Good answer, thanks. I´ll see if some of the older pads can still be kept and eventually revitalized somehow. The felt of the old pads is much softer then the pads I have and can change to.

 

[Chris Peryagh]

Measure the thickness of the old pads and see which new pads are the nearest thickness to them, then choose new ones that are either the same thickness or slightly thinner. Most pad makers or suppliers will state the thickness their pads are.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

Measure the thickness of the old pads and see which new pads are the nearest thickness to them, then choose new ones that are either the same thickness or slightly thinner. Most pad makers or suppliers will state the thickness their pads are.

100% agreement.
Also, if there is a choice of felt density, the harder will be snappier & more positive than the rather more compliant softer felt.

 

[Henning1]

Also, if there is a choice of felt density, the harder will be snappier & more positive than the rather more compliant softer felt.

Even with a Martin that´s got the thicker tone hole edges?

Again, thanks for your previous answers.

Regards

 

[Chris Peryagh]

Firm or soft pads will still feel firm or soft under the fingers regardless what the thickness of the tonehole rim is. The important factor is the pads seat properly onto them no mater if they're drawn (which most are), drawn and rolled (as on Conns and Mauriats), soft soldered (as on Martins), hard soldered (as on SMLs) or drawn with a ring soldered to them to look like rolled toneholes (as on Keilwerths).

Poorly seated pads will feel spongy no matter if they're firm or soft as one side will close before the rest of the pad gets squeezed closed. Pads should close using light finger pressure - not forced to close under heavy finger pressure.

The choice of density is up to you - if you prefer soft pads then choose them, or choose firm pads if that's what you like, but do get them seated properly all the same so you're not having to close them with a vice-like grip.

What you don't want are pads that are so soft the toneholes make deep impressions in them, so choose firm pads to be on the safe side - even on Martins with thick tonehole rims.

 

[clarnibass]

Even with a Martin that´s got the thicker tone hole edges?

Assuming the pads are sealing and seating corretly, yes, the tone hole doesn't really matter, the firmer pads will feel "snappier". If the pads are not seating corretly, firmer pads often feel worse because the finger has to overcome the harder pad to seal vs. a soft pad.

Everything else being equal, the thicker rims of Martin tone holes will require slightly more pressure to seal than tone holes with thin rims (I'm not saying normal playing force won't be able to seal both). An example for that is how with so little force it hurts to sit on one nail, but a chair full of nails and you need a lot more force for it to hurt nearly as much (an example from the kids department of the local science museum). Your pain is equivilent to the pad sealing.

 

[jbtsax]

It sounds as if you are asking whether it is ok to mix pads with resonators with pads without resonators. I see nothing wrong with doing that. I would add however that when changing one or two pads on the upper stack, or lower stack I get better results by replacing them all. The reason is that it is harder to regulate the keys when one pad is new and supple and the pad it closes is old and hard. Of course on the independent keys that operate alone, it makes no difference.

I have done a few old C-mels using the white roo pads from Music Medic (.160" thick) and they work great. I also like the way they look on the old silver saxes with the seamless domed resonators.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

Even with a Martin that´s got the thicker tone hole edges?

Again, thanks for your previous answers.

Regards

Yes, even with a Martin...the pad cannot read the manufactures name, it's job is simply to seal around an annulus. :bluewink:

 

[JayeLID]

I just purchased an old King C Melody that had repadded. The pads are too thick and do not seal propely and there are no resonators. Just somethingto be aware of. Not all pads are the same thickness.

Wait...you mean you had to get it repadded ? Or you rec'd it with a horrible repad job ????

 

[JayeLID]

I do this all the time...change only the pads which are shot, leave the old pads still sealing. It comes out perfectly fine. Indeed, if one pays attention there is a different 'feel' to the keys with new vs. old...but one really has to be paying attention.

I usually repad C-mels with riveted, non-resonator pads since that is what they were outfitted with...just for the sake of history.

I do wonder, sometimes, if one outfitted a C-mel with the most sonically egdy sorta resonator pads available (not that I know if there is such a thing; or if it's just a matter of opinion)...if that would provide a teensy counterbalance to some of the dark stuffiness of the horn.....

 

[Gary59]

I used MusicMedic Precision pads on my 1920 Conn, and they worked just fine.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

I do wonder, sometimes, if one outfitted a C-mel with the most sonically egdy sorta resonator pads available (not that I know if there is such a thing; or if it's just a matter of opinion)...if that would provide a teensy counterbalance to some of the dark stuffiness of the horn.....

Yes, it transforms the horn.
I habitually re-pad my C tenors with bog standard resonator pads....the change in sound and "attitude" is immense...it plays just like a tenor or alto.
Another C possibly arriving soon & I am wondering what are the pads with the largest diameter resonators. How about Roo Pads?
In the UK there seems little choice.

 

[Chris Peryagh]

You could order RooPads and specify the maximum and minimum diameters of the resos you want in each pad.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

You could order RooPads and specify the maximum and minimum diameters of the resos you want in each pad.

Thank you Chris, I did not know.....That is exactly what I want to hear.
Presumably from a choice of standard existing resonator diameters....he is hardly likely to turn them to my individual spec.

 

[Chris Peryagh]

Yeah - you'd have to settle with which diameter reso is best from the existing sizes they have, so give the maximum size for each reso and the nearest size reso (without going over the maximum diameter you specify) can be fitted to each pad.

I ordered a set of pads for an SML bari where the Bb bis key pad cup is very large in comparison to the actual tonehole diameter, so specified the pad diameter and also the maximum diameter of the reso so it sat well within the tonehole.