[pperrotti]

Hi everybody,
I'm new on the forum. I tried the search tool and couldn't find a topic that really helps me. So there it go!
I bouth a new Otto Link Tone edge 7* after 1 year playing on a Yamaha 4C on my YTS-280.
I noticed that the baffle, the area right behind the tip is not linear, i mean, it looks like the baffle angle isn't uniform, the concavity doesn't start at the same distance from the tip.I was thinking if it can affect my sound. Today is the 3rd day i'm playing on it, and i can make a very nice tone compared with my old yamaha 4C, but its a bit ''squeaky'' on the high notes second register. I'm having problems to find this model with this tip opening in the market, so i needed to order it online and didn't have the opportunity to try different pieces of the same model, so i dont have how to compare it.
I head about the bad finishing of the new Links and now i dont know what to do. The squeaking can be just because im not used to this tip opening, or the reeds?
So, the question is, should i ask the store to change the product?
Gonna send some pics so u can undertand the problem.

Thanks!

 

[mrpeebee]

Welcome to the forum pperrotti!

Almost all Otto Link Tone Edge mouthpieces have that hole behind the tip, it's most probably a remainder of the way they produce these mouthpieces. It normally shouldn't cause squeaks. Those can happen when with very high baffle mouthpiece (that's not valid for your TE), unevenness in the baffle close to the tip rail and corners, an uneven facing curve (both can't be seen on your pictures) or by putting too much pressure on the reed while playing. My guess is that your issue is caused by the last one, also due to the increased tip size you play now.

You could try a softer reed and try to play with less pressure. Give it some time. If the issue stays it would be advised to let your mouthpiece checked by a good refacer.

PS. I deleted the other thread you made about the same topic (it's not allowed to start multiple threads about the same topic). Your first post still had to be moderated/approved before it became visible, I guess that was the reason why you posted the second thread).

 

[pperrotti]

Hey Mr PeeBee,thanks a lot for answering!
Yes, the second post was because i thought the first didn't work. Sorry for that.
I already tried different reeds. I use a vandoren traditional 3 on the Yamaha 4C, and i'm trying now on the Otto Link traditionals 2.5. Tried also the V16 2.5 and red java 2.5.
I just want to be sure that the problem i'm seeing could be seen in the pics.
Hopefully you could see that the curve of the baffle close to the tip is not homogeneous. I mean, the concavity right behind the tip rail starts before on the left side ( right side on the pic). So the reed is gonna be closer to the baffle on the left side than in the right side. I was thinking if it would change the velocity of the air; in one side on the moutpiece its gonna pass faster than in the other, since there is less space in one side, and it could '' twist the reed '' while i blow. Just a matter of physics, anyway its driving me crazy, because i have only 10 days now to send it back to the store and ask to change the piece or refounds. I prefer not to spend more money on refacing if i can avoid.
I'm gonna send some more pics to make sure u understand the problem i'm seeing here.
The arrow in the close-up pic is indicating the side where the concavity starts more distant from the tip rail.
Now i'm pretty sure i explained well.
Thansk again!

 

[Sebastian]

It can also happen if even a modest baffle is too high behind the tip rail and makes unwanted contact with the reed, as well as high spots on the table that can warp reeds. This last feature appears on a lot of tables that have been made "flat" but actually are high under the window.

Make sure you are lining your reed up properly too, just as a good habit so that when you press the reed down it lines up with the tip rail or just below. This may help as well.

 

[mrpeebee]

Thanks for the new pictures pperrotti.

I had seen the irregular shape of the baffle, but initially thought it was due to the lightning in your first pictures. In the new ones I can see it more clearly, but I don't think that causes your issue. But it seems from those pictures that the tip rail is not so well defined and it looks that the baffle area is in parts on almost the same level as the tip rail. That is a well known cause of squeaking.

Maybe you can ask a sax playing friend (who is used to this tip opening) to play your TE, just to see if it also 'squeaks when played by him. Trying a softer reed than the ones you already tried could maybe also help, but from the pictures I think it's your tip rail/baffle construction that causes the issue.

Sending it back to where you bought it or letting it correct by a good refacer seems like the best approach to me.

A properly defined tip rail should look a bit like this:
http://www.saxmundstykker.dk/Link_alto_EB_Comparisons/Tip_and_rails.jpg

 

[pperrotti]

Thank you very much guys!
I already tried with softer reeds (2.0), and i'm alining the reed well, i always do the sealing test. Still squeaking , its just a bit, as the start of the high notes( specially high B, C and D).
Only the idea of having this irregular baffle makes me unconfortable. I'm really considering sending it back and asking the substitution, but habing in mindall the problems i'm seeing people having with Otto Links i'm afraid they can send an even worse one. hahaha.
I don't undertand why i can't see my second post here, the one i sent the new pictures. So more people can make comments.
Sorry, I need to understand how the forum works ;-)
I think i sent the message only to you mrpeebee, right?

 

[mrpeebee]

I don't undertand why i can't see my second post here, the one i sent the new pictures. So more people can make comments.
Sorry, I need to understand how the forum works ;-)
I think i sent the message only to you mrpeebee, right?

Your second post came into moderate status, so normal members couldn't see it (I can as moderator see everything). I just approved it, it should be visible for all now. Also checked your member authorization, looks good too, so hopefully your posts will become from now on visible for all immediately after posting (the forum runs on very old software!).

 

[turf3]

A friend of mine had one of these cleaned up by Eric Greiffenhagen (may have not spelled his name correctly) and is raving about it. I'd certainly consider something like that.

 

[Nefertiti]

Man, those are some pretty wide side rails up near the tip! Looks like something Sugal might do..........

 

[Nefertiti]

A crooked baffle in of itself does not mean trouble. I have a few pieces that have crooked baffles that play great so I wouldn't assume it is automatically that. If it is squeaking and passes the suction test I guess I would just send it back. Getting it refaced would take another 100 bucks out of your pocket which you probably don't want to do. Maybe just exchange it for another one and hopefully that one won't have issues. The other thing I have tried to do in the past is to reach out to the company that made the piece and tell them. Most of the time they don't respond but sometimes I have gotten responses and they have offered to look at the piece and either correct the problem or send me a new piece. Babbitt might too big to do the latter but you never know.......

 

[turf3]

They do seem a bit wide, but I don't think it matters if the outer edges are far apart because the tip rails are only significant where they touch the reed. So if the reed contact area is 1/2 mm wide, it shouldn't matter if the flat part is another mm wider past the edges of the reed.

 

[MojoBari]

I could fix the baffle shape for $20. But I do not think that will fix your squeaking problem. I have a FAQ answer on my web site about squeaks.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

Man, those are some pretty wide side rails up near the tip! Looks like something Sugal might do..........

Dr. Tenney was an advocate of the wider side rails to attenuate upper partials (dampens reed vibrations). The problem with this is the the response is diminished. I am working on a piece with thinner tip rails and a modified throat/chamber to achieve the same result without the diminished response. It's mostly all a trade off.

 

[pperrotti]

I read your FAQ about squeaking. Very nice and usefull, thanks!

 

[pperrotti]

Thank you all guys.
I decided to follow your advice and from other people to give the mouthpiece a try. Since its sealing quite well with most reeds, sounds good along all the registers and have a nice dark tone. The only thing is that the high notes doesn't have that attack, or power, i mean, doesn't have much projection, but i think its a characteristic of the RB Otto Links...? Im assuming that probably my problems with squeaking are due to my embouchure and getting adapted to the new mouthpiece and tip opening. I'm having a lot of time to practice here since the country stoped because of Coronavirus( i live in Italy).
Arrivederci:treble:

 

[mrpeebee]

The only thing is that the high notes doesn't have that attack, or power, i mean, doesn't have much projection, but i think its a characteristic of the RB Otto Links...?

That's indeed a characteristic of the Tone Edge. Adding a small baffle (from putty, which you can shape an remove easily) could improve that. Pairing it with a brighter reed can also help a bit. I have a 10* Tone Edge that I can get gritty, but it needs a lot of air to get there and even then it's not loud enough if you really have to cut through (in that case you will need another mouthpiece).

Here is an example clip of me on the 10* Tone Edge: https://www.soundclick.com/music/songInfo.cfm?songID=13555351

The Otto Link New Vintage Slant Tone Edge is much better as a Tone Edge if you are looking for more projection in the upper register, because it has a higher baffle and a slightly smaller chamber.

 

[turf3]

That's indeed a characteristic of the Tone Edge. Adding a small baffle (from putty, which you can shape an remove easily) could improve that. Pairing it with a brighter reed can also help a bit. I have a 10* Tone Edge that I can get gritty, but it needs a lot of air to get there and even then it's not loud enough if you really have to cut through (in that case you will need another mouthpiece).

Here is an example clip of me on the 10* Tone Edge: https://www.soundclick.com/music/songInfo.cfm?songID=13555351

The Otto Link New Vintage Slant Tone Edge is much better as a Tone Edge if you are looking for more projection in the upper register, because it has a higher baffle and a slightly smaller chamber.

I would urge you, OP, to give the new piece a good honest try just as it is. It may seem to you that you've lost some upper register projection, but I think that will come back after some practice. I had a similar experience recently when I went through a little mouthpiece dance on tenor. At first I thought the Link was not projecting as well as my well-used Meyer (which has been my main tenor mouthpiece since 1978). But with some more practice and familiarization, I don't think I've lost any projection. Unfortunately it'll probably be a while before you can try your new mouthpiece in a group setting, but when you do, after spending some time with it, doing long tones and interval exercises, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm not ready to say I'm going to give up the Meyer for my new Link, but if I find myself playing a lot of tenor, in the future, that might happen.

After some time, if you really think you want more cutting at high pitches, then consider the Meyer which has a slightly smaller chamber. I have rarely had success with adding baffles to mouthpieces while avoiding other problems (although I do have one that I use constantly). I think it's more difficult to successfully add baffle material to a "rollover baffle" design (as Otto Link and Meyer) than to a long flat baffle, but that might just be an excuse for not having done it right in the past.

As to Mr PB's 10* (!!) Tone Edge, I actually got one of those (came in the case as a surprise, and it's 10, not 10*) and it sounds great but I don't have the chops to play it with a normal reed and I don't have the time to work with it to control it with a softer one. But the point is that I think when you get to those very open pieces they behave differently than the more moderate openings.

 

[BobD]

I find Links to be a challenge to play. Had a refaced Tone Edge that I loved the sound of and it was fine playing in my basement but when I started playing in a jazz ensemble the person running it said he couldn't hear me. I tried blowing harder but it just didn't cut thru enough. I'm not playing in that group right now but changed over to a metal NY Link. I can tell it projects more but I'm having a hard time with intonation. I've been working on it for a month and it's coming along but it's gonna take some more time before I'm comfortable on it. Thing is it sounds so good I feel like it's worth the work.