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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There is an interesting similarity between these two necks. One has the oval "resonance" stone in the center, and the other has two "resonance" weights that are also oval shaped but on both sides of the center and a bit higher. One would assume that the underslung octave mechanism is used because the weights get in the way. I know that Cannonball has a patent on their stone on the neck. I wonder if this "new design" is a sneaky way around that to achieve the same effect.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
There is one more item on the new neck design that is should be mentioned. That is the built in "neck enhancer". It is supposed to "focus the air stream and reduce turbulence". If I remember right there are also necks from the same designer that are threaded inside the opening that are supposed to play better because they increase the turbulence. :)

The problem as I see it with this "built in" neck enhancer is that one size doesn't fit all. Everyone who has ever owned several mouthpieces knows that the throat diameters can be quite different on different models causing one to be tight and another to be too loose on the same cork. In order to work properly the O.D. of the neck enhancer would need to match exactly to the I.D. of the throat of the mouthpiece for it to make an airtight connection. Even if the enhancer were custom fit to a particular mouthpiece, it is possible that each time the player changed mouthpieces a new neck and/or enhancer would need to be obtained.
 

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The manufacturer claims they have a lot more weight than the stone version, so presumably they are solid. I wonder what the best material would be for the weight - lead, gold or tungsten carbide - to get a high-density, localised mass.
 

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I don't get it: what is a "resonance stone" supposed to do outside the sax neck?? The sound waves are simply reflected on the inner walls (hence, arguably, the material and plating of a sax have no influence on it's sound) so nothing on the outside would have have any effect other than make our wallets lighter.

Is this a hoax or am I missing sth here? :?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
They would have to be solid so as not to interfere with the cone inside the bore of the neck. In another place on the web, the same designer claims that adding a brace to a neck takes away the neck's "resonance". Go figure.

John
 

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And my own flute plays exactly the same if I remove the crown thingy altogether. Go figure. I guress that means I am an incompetent player.

It would probably 'play better' if I PAID (several hundred $)to have the crown thingy removed.
 

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I believe the marketing departments of both cannonball and this s.g company totally understand P.T. Barnum’s famous quote.
 

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Giganova, any material would have an effect on any sound in its area. So these stones would have some microscopic effect. This effect is too small and insignificant to make any difference. To hear the real difference such stones make, depending on their material, build a room from that material and play in it.
 

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Some flute crown manufacturers mount different stones in them and claim that they affect the sound differently. As far as I am concerned it is all smoke and mirrors...the effects of weights or stones on the neck or in the crown of a flute would be vanishingly small. The effects in the mind of the player are a different story.

Toby
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just a quick update to this neck design. The "designer" has this to say about it:

"Everybody who has played it (about 20 different professionals) agree it's the loudest neck they've experienced. I designed it specifically for Selmer Mk VI horns, but it seems to work quite well on Yamaha Customs and 62's, Yanigasawa's, and Selmer Series III and Reference series horns. The tenon diameter must be adjusted a bit, but that's not a big issue. This is a neck specifically for the rock and roll market. I tried adding mass at different points, and through a lot of trial and error found the location and size of the three weights to be the optimum solution. It all involved using a node chart (I'll be glad to send one to anybody who wants one if you email me privately [email protected] ) and finding out what didn't work and what did through experimentation."

This raises a few interesting questions:

-How do weights on the bow of a sax neck actually increase the volume of a horn?

-Why do "rock and roll" players need a louder sax to begin with since they are always mic'ed anyway?

If anyone gets the node chart, I'd like a copy. The odds of my getting one are not too good at this point in time. :D

John
 

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'member, 'member that time when buescher and conn, martin and selmer were all separate manufacturers with design differences in keywork and bore, and tonehole placement, and it all seemed so much more upfront and honest?

None of this funny "enhancement" hooey?

I guess that's why I haven't been shopping for "new" instruments lately, all I've been looking at have been pre WWII.

No resonance stonery on my instruments!!

dv
 

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Of substance

Horns of different weight will sound different. Compared horns with ribbed and no-rib construction. The horns with the ribbed construction tend to sound warmer. Saxes with larger bells tend to project more. Horns that have had deep dents repaired tend to sound different in the area of repair if lacquer and or plating hasn't been added to make up for the lost material due to repair. So by theory, more mass can affect the overall sound quality.

I wish they would put the extra mass into braces that prevent neck pull down, put the extra brass into the plam keys so I don't have to use key risers (right hand too), and put the extra mass into better key systems. Heck, why not put extra metal into the tube and bell? I love heavyweight horns, especially the old Martin and Selmer Tenors.

Airflow is an issue to itself.
 

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It's not only old Selmer Tenors that are heavy. My AS100 weighs as much as my Buescher True-Tone tenor.
 

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jnewmann said:
Horns of different weight will sound different. Compared horns with ribbed and no-rib construction. The horns with the ribbed construction tend to sound warmer. Saxes with larger bells tend to project more. Horns that have had deep dents repaired tend to sound different in the area of repair if lacquer and or plating hasn't been added to make up for the lost material due to repair. So by theory, more mass can affect the overall sound quality.

I wish they would put the extra mass into braces that prevent neck pull down, put the extra brass into the plam keys so I don't have to use key risers (right hand too), and put the extra mass into better key systems. Heck, why not put extra metal into the tube and bell? I love heavyweight horns, especially the old Martin and Selmer Tenors.

Airflow is an issue to itself.
Chapter and verse for these assertions?
This has not been my experience at all.
 

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Trumpet players have been adding weights for a long time. A player I know has them on his mouthpiece and lead pipe. This is nothing new. What looks different about this design is that the weights appear to have been added at a specific location, presumably to affect specific notes. If you look at a chart of nodal points as they occour within a neck, these weights seem to be around D2, which is always a stuffy sounding note.

I don't see where this neck is all that similar to the Cannonball. It would seem to me to be a completely different approach. The exterior stone that Cannonball uses couldn't possibly have much weight. It looks like this design has added a very significant amount of mass.
 
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