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François Louis apparently came out with two new ligatures, i. e. the "Basic" and the "Pure Brass" ligatures. See the web site of his production company

http://www.woodwind-conceptions.com/

Has anybody on the forum tried this less expensive models?
 

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but they are just so similar to the Vandoren optimum....
 

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baritone said:
but they are just so similar to the Vandoren optimum....
HUMMMMMMMM!confused:
I don't really know about that! Apart from a vague resemblance of the tightening mechanism I think that it is altogether a different system. The new FL " pure brass" (available only for wooden and ebonite pieces) ligature, like the older one, has bars, integrated (not soldered like the other model) in the flat strips of metal which are different from the previous model which had wires connecting them.

The Vandoren, is in its conception a fairly tradition ligature to my unsofisticated eye:twisted: . Very beautiful none the less, but very traditional in conception......but then again..... we have always the broccoli rubber band which has been suggested so often as an alternative ligature....:cool:
 

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I used to like the FL Ultimate a lot, but I realised that the plates would give and then I would end up with an indentation of the screw head on my reed. The basic is the one that looks the most promising to me.
 

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Grumps said:
Are they going to dump the Ultimate design? Makes me wonder if they're falling apart, or some other longer term problem has developed with them.

I have seen some where one or more of the posts have come loose/off, but i can't speak to it being a manufacturing issue or a user issue. I haven't heard anything about the Ultimates being discontinued as of yet.
 

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I am pretty sure that the new ligature is not a cross-breed with any other one which has been quoted as an example but just an evolution of the older one. Probably addressing some issues like a certain flimsiness of the soldering between wire and bars but very likely doing also something else. These bars look crucial, to me, to the innovative character of this ligature as they make it different from other ligatures. This new design adds also another thing when it comes to the pressure plate for the reed which is now not anymore a part of the locking system, probably this is more acoustically important than the flat metal strips holding the bars or the wires doing the same thing.

There is an issue with this ligatures and the reason that some might have been crushing them (anyone?) it is virtually impossible to tune your horn when the ligature is in place, one needs to be able to grad the piece and push and pull and turn, if you do this too energetically you'll crush the lig.
 

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milandro said:
I am pretty sure that the new ligature is not a cross-breed with any other one which has been quoted as an example but just an evolution of the older one. Probably addressing some issues like a certain flimsiness of the soldering between wire and bars but very likely doing also something else. These bars look crucial, to me, to the innovative character of this ligature as they make it different from other ligatures. This new design adds also another thing when it comes to the pressure plate for the reed which is now not anymore a part of the locking system, probably this is more acoustically important than the flat metal strips holding the bars or the wires doing the same thing.

There is an issue with this ligatures and the reason that some might have been crushing them (anyone?) it is virtually impossible to tune your horn when the ligature is in place, one needs to be able to grad the piece and push and pull and turn, if you do this too energetically you'll crush the lig.


When you say "CRUSHING" do you mean that they are flattened??
 

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To Simon

" crushing" as in grabbing the ligature, holding it tight with your hand in order to slide the mouthpiece it in and out on the cork, the Francois Louis tends to hurt your hands if you do this and possibly getting damaged if you do this too often or with too much force (mine is still intact but I have been attempting this only a couple of times before deciding that this course of action was too dangerous and uncomfortable) .

It is , in fact, just thin metal wires solderen onto rather thin metal bars.

to BobD.

if you think that these are just metal version of a Rovner ligature, allow me to say with the maximum respect that you have never seen one ligature like this from close by let alone used one.

It is a completely different concept. If one accepts that ligatures have an influence on sound (and we have conducted a discussion elsewhere where some contributors maintained that they thought it had none...) a soft, material, plastic or leather, ligature which runs around the mouthpiece everywhere has to be different from a metal ligature with metal bars in contact with the surface of the mouthpiece itself?
I am non necessarily saying that it is better, but they are obviously different concepts.
 

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I posted a thread about these new ligatures a couple of days ago but no one responded (I am undergoing therapy about this now, sob).

I found out about them from Howarths in London. The very friendly and helpful guy there said that the difference is that the current model is brass bars on steel wire and the new design is entirely brass in order to provide a better resonance. The surrounding cage certainly looks thicker to me - I would imagine it is a heavier lig.

They will only be doing one size (L Alto / S Tenor) at least initially. Howarth reckoned they'd be available in about 8 weeks.

I have not had any quality problems with my existing FL Ultimate, nor heard of any issues re robustness, I think they are just hoping to improve upon an existing great design. It will be interesting to see how they go.
 

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Hi Rick, no need for therapy:) , I'm giving you plenty of feedback and my full attention!

Do you place the ligature on the mouthpiece after positioning the mouthpiece on the cork in a precise spot that you know will be in tune with that mouthpiece ? In that case you never have any need for adjusting and repositioning the mouthpiece. If you need to reposition after mounting the ligature how do you actually do this without grabbing the piece and ligature firmly with one and turn it into position? If one does this there is a serious possibility that the bar-wire soldering will, sooner or later, get distressed (your hands are for sure, unless you use gloves to do that :) )
 

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The former. MPC goes on neck first, then I position reed and lig.

I know just what you mean but if the MPC is stiff onto the cork then with any type of lig I think you should position the MPC correctly first, otherwise when you twist the MPC you jog the reed and reposition it slightly - unless it's clamped down with ridiculous force. I would suggest this is user error :)

I used to use the FL with my Barone NY but I am currently using a HR MPC and SonnyMobleyTrane is sending me an FL to try. So far I've tried Oleg, BG and a standard Selmer and the standard Selmer is winning hands down. I'd like to try an Optimum too.
 

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Toot Sweet! said:
Has anybody on the forum tried this less expensive models?
How could anyone try them when none of their wondeful distributors don't have them...most of them don't even know what you're talking about when you inquire. More companies need to start dealing DIRECTLY with the consumer, online...it's 2007 for God's sake!!!
 

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brassnaked said:
More companies need to start dealing DIRECTLY with the consumer, online...it's 2007 for God's sake!!!

I have mixed feelings about this statement, the reason is that although it is true that the internet has transformed our economic systems pretty radically and the way we buy or sell things is not the same that it ever was, in spite of all of this, when it comes to quality items the role of shops ( their owners, assistants, keepers) is a major one and I don't complain too much to pay a bit more to pay for all they do for me.
It is different from buying reeds (once you have assessed which ones you need or like...for which you invariably need a shop to sell you just a couple to try out...), there is lot of work in advising , assisting, nurturing the clients and this has to be rewarded. So, yes, they might sell on line, but they would at least have to sell at the same price of a shop, in order to protect the shops from being by-passed hence putting them out of business.
 

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brassnaked said:
How could anyone try them when none of their wondeful distributors don't have them...most of them don't even know what you're talking about when you inquire. More companies need to start dealing DIRECTLY with the consumer, online...it's 2007 for God's sake!!!
Whoaw there, horsey!! Just relax now. I know you want your brand-new, fancy, over-priced, Belgian ligature and youre excited that the "rare saxophone genius" has created a new way to take your money---but youre just going to have to have PATIENCE!

Its only a ligature.
 

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Selmer's_glu said:
Its only a ligature.
No it's not. It's at least a loss of 4 to 6 more hours of lost productive practicing time by hunting down the retailer, purchasing the equipment, and then a-b- testing them against the other versions and a billion other ligs. But, in the end, it shall provide me with a years reprieve from having to practice. With an FL lig I am bound to sound better than I would have to work for.

It is grace in a consumable form. It is the hand of god outstretched and those sacred digits afixing my reed to my mouthpiece.

It's not just a ligature. It's serenity. Now hush. :hmph:
 

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Selmer's_glu said:
Whoaw there, horsey!! Just relax now. I know you want your brand-new, fancy, over-priced, Belgian ligature and youre excited that the "rare saxophone genius" has created a new way to take your money---but youre just going to have to have PATIENCE!

Its only a ligature.
That's your opinion...and you know what they say about opinions.
I also don't need you to tell me that I HAVE to have patience, or anything else for that matter. I don't need your permission to do or not do anything, especially when to "Whoa" and when to "relax." A bit of a control freak are you? Just my OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Kids---play nice. Don't make me come over there...;):D

'glu--It doesn't do any good to comment to people that already have their mind made up.

Brassnaked--don't make incendiary comments and not expect to get flamed!
 
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