Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 309 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have designed a radical new type of saxophone keywork.

I have enough material to build a C Soprano. I have a senior design project coming up that I must complete for graduation in Mechanical Engineering. I plan to make a C Soprano for this project using my new design. I need help from the forum in the measurement department.

I did a search on the forum and could not find out three measurements that I will need.

1) Length from bell to top without mouthpiece.

2) Bore inside diameter at the top.

3) Bore inside diameter right before the bell flares.

With this info I will be able to produce something interesting... Thank you in advance.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the C-Me
Joined
·
2,057 Posts
I have designed a radical new type of saxophone keywork. I have enough material to build a C Soprano...
Danny, appreciate your enthusiasm, but why not a straight C-Tenor with true tapered bore - that could well end up being a viable commercial product. Soprano is a tricky beast, you'd need to test it...

There are rafts of tenors and altos around to measure if you go the C-Tenor route, just split the difference 40%/60% (Bb-C-Eb).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
Danny,
different manufacturers used different measurements on their C-sops.
I will measure my King C sop for you later today anyway.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
726 Posts
Danny:
In my opinion, it would be a good idea taking the King design as a starting point, one of the most important features is the position of the octave pip designed far away from the cork allowing the possibility to try any kind of Bb pieces without being top to the octave pip, avoiding the consequence of chopping the pieces as usually every C soprano player does http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/lepoisondargent/King C soprano/012.jpg
The intonation of the King C is very good too.
Keep us update, and good luck with your project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Danny, appreciate your enthusiasm, but why not a straight C-Tenor with true tapered bore - that could well end up being a viable commercial product. Soprano is a tricky beast, you'd need to test it...
There are rafts of tenors and altos around to measure if you go the C-Tenor route, just split the difference 40%/60% (Bb-C-Eb).
I did think about making a C-Tenor, but the brass pipe I have at the moment just isn't quite big enough. It will be cheaper for me to make a soprano initially to test the viability of my keywork design.

Once I have the measurements I can slice a carefully measured wedge out of the pipe and curl it into a tapered bore and resolder it back together. Whats nice about a soprano is that there is no removable neck, the whole piece is one fluid tapered pipe. The pipe I have is nice and thick too, so there will be no need for any extra ribbing. I have 1.5 years from today to finish the project for school... and a whole machine shop at my disposal...

Perhaps I will re-evaluate the idea of a straight C-Tenor though.... the only thing I am trying to avoid is making a curved saxophone which IMO is much harder than a straight one to form the body.


Danny,
different manufacturers used different measurements on their C-sops.
I will measure my King C sop for you later today anyway.
Thank you cvsimson, I plan to make this soprano have low A so I will have to cleverly manipulate these dimensions a little bit. Mainly I am trying to find out the amount of taper that will be necessary. The first step will be to get a tapered pipe with a bell, that attached to a mpc. and reed on a cork on the end will blow a nice low A...


Gandalfe- A nice suggestion... I will see if he wants to chat a bit. I am trying not to reveal the concept of my design though... It is quite unique... When I get the first few keys done I will most likely file a patent and then I will post pics galore of what I have come up with. My apologies on being so proprietary....

electricfigue- Thankyou, when I get the measurements from cvsimson I will study the King design thoroughly. I will let you guys know of my progress!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
6,715 Posts
Hmmmm......

On an associated topic, it is some time since we heard from SeeTenor...I wonder what progress he has made with his design?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,880 Posts
yes, everything is very much hush hush there..........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Anyone here have an old cheap Bb soprano mpc. and a few reeds they want to sell? I shall need one for testing and tuning this instrument... not anything special just something that will play!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
6,715 Posts
Anyone here have an old cheap Bb soprano mpc. and a few reeds they want to sell? I shall need one for testing and tuning this instrument... not anything special just something that will play!
You must be working on a very restrictive budget ....... a Metalite soprano mouthpiece costs pennies.
Encouraging however that you have already arrived at the tuning & testing stage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Ahhh the Metalite... a bit more than "pennies" but that will be a wonderful mpc. to use to play-test the instrument.

Key word "shall" need... all I have right now is a length of pipe. I need a few guiding measurements to figure out the length and taper amount... and then I shall first produce a conical pipe that with a mouthpiece and reed on the cork will blow an A2....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
Danny,
Here are the measurements:

Length 56 cm to the beginning of the bell flare, or 57.5 to the rim.

Bore internal diameter at the top 1 cm

Bore diameter at the beginning of the bell flare - about 5 cm (it is somewhat hard to precise where the bell starts to flare...)

I hope this helps your project. Keep us posted on your progress
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thankyou cvsimson, this is excellent information. I will keep all of you posted on what is going on... Ill post a video of the body when it is complete without toneholes demonstrating its low A and perhaps some overtones.

Once again, thankyou for measuring that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Danny, PM me your postal address and I'll send you free a Metalite Bb sop piece I have spare that I don't use. You'll have to buy a lig for it (or use a thick rubber band - works just as well!).
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the C-Me
Joined
·
2,057 Posts
.. and then I shall first produce a conical pipe that with a mouthpiece and reed on the cork will blow an A2....
Danny, the very best of luck, but that's why my 'slight reserve' earlier. A stable soprano embouchure is much more precise and controlled than anything needed to play a C-Tenor, and does take time (and pain) to cultivate - so you may want to enlist the help of someone who already plays soprano, because the A2 you get may well be way off an experienced soprano players A2.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
6,715 Posts
Also, there is no real need to concern yourself about the start of the bell flare, it is the overall length that matters....the pulse is reflected from that point, not the start of the flare.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
14,268 Posts
May I suggest measuring at a point near the low Bb tone hole rather than trying to gauge exactly where the bell flare begins? For example, measure the bore diameter at the lower edge of the Bb tone hole. That way, the diameter can be compared on several different horns with more accuracy. DAVE
 
1 - 20 of 309 Posts
Top