[jgoedhart]

Hi,

i recently bought a second hand Selmer mkVII tenor.
Although it seemed pretty nice at first hand ive noticed that the neck tenon does is not straight on the top. Therefore the neck which needs to be inserted is not seating completely on the tenon itself.
After further investigation it seemed that the F sharp pole is slightly dented inwards into the body. To me it looked like it had some damage in the past. Although the tenor was completely overhauled it doesnt seem right to me.
There is only a small gap of about 2mm on one side,but does this affect the tuning and respons?
The neck itself fits snug in the tenon, however it does not fit straight.
See attached pictures

Any help would be apppreciated

http://imgur.com/gHNbQIM

http://imgur.com/tBJZsZg

thnx!

 

[milandro]

You can have this fixed by a good technician ( I may be able to advise) , if you really want. I am not sure that there is a real problem with this but the post can be straightened , although this is a very tough spot and it may come off during the operation and may need being soldered in place with consequent loss of the lacquer there.

I don’t think that this is bound to give you any real problems in terms of tuning and response ( the latter provided there is no leak)

 

[jgoedhart]

You can have this fixed by a good technician ( I may be able to advise) , if you really want. I am not sure that there is a real problem with this but the post can be straightened , although this is a very tough spot and it may come off during the operation and may need being soldered in place with consequent loss of the lacquer there.

I don't think that this is bound to give you any real problems in terms of tuning and response ( the latter provided there is no leak)

Milandro ,thnx for your advice.
I know some good technicians as well , however i think it should be fixed from the store where i bought it from last saturday. Coming from that shop i didnt expected to find these kind of errors cause i have a good relationship with them and it is a well known shop. The saxpads are leak free. I tested this with a leak light in the forst place. However i cannot check the tenon if there is a leak off course.

 

[milandro]

it is very difficult to check even for most shops.

Leaks at the receiver tenon level are considered to be very difficult. I have always thought so until not so long ago I tried a newck on many different saxophones, somethings the fitting was very loose and yet I could play it without any major problem. Good lucj!

 

[1saxman]

I can't see why the neck fits crooked in the collar but I have not seen one like that before. Pushing out the F# tone hole should be a straightforward job unless the post pops off which is also fixable. The first thing I would do is take out the neck and examine the tenon and collar to see what might be the cause. Turn the neck around and put it in backwards, with the mouthpiece end toward the bell. Is it now crooked on the same side or the other? Little common sense tests like this might show you what is wrong. One guess is that the collar has been removed for some reason and incorrectly replaced. Another look suggested maybe the top of the collar has been sanded down on that side for some reason, in which case the whole thing would have to be replaced to make it right. The only alternative to that might be to have it built up with brass braze and re-shaped. Personally I think the store should take it back and give you a full refund.

 

[milandro]

If the neck receiver would have been reattached it would show burned lacquer for sure, the bumped post would have been able to slightly move the entire arrangement a little bit.

 

[turf3]

It's possible that it's always been that way from the factory. If they brazed the clamping collar askew to the tube part of the tenon then trimmed the tube down to be even with the top of the collar all round.

Personally if it plays, inserts repeatably, doesn't wobble, and doesn't seem to leak, then I'd write it off to QC.

 

[MMM]

An easy way to tell if the neck is leaking is to pack the neck tenon with cork grease. Insert the neck and play test: do you hear any difference?
That should tell you if the neck leaks or not.
After your test, please make sure you wipe off the grease very carefully from neck tenon and body socket. You can also finish off the cleanup with some lighter fluid or alcohol on a clean cloth and degrease the two neck parts.
There is definitely something not right and I doubt it was there from birth, more likely the result of damage repair: could it be that when the high F pillar was knocked, the neck took a hit at the same time? If it bugs you, take it back, they may be able to put it right for you.
Hope you can resolve it. M.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jgoedhart]

An easy way to tell if the neck is leaking is to pack the neck tenon with cork grease. Insert the neck and play test: do you hear any difference?
That should tell you if the neck leaks or not.
After your test, please make sure you wipe off the grease very carefully from neck tenon and body socket. You can also finish off the cleanup with some lighter fluid or alcohol on a clean cloth and degrease the two neck parts.
There is definitely something not right and I doubt it was there from birth, more likely the result of damage repair: could it be that when the high F pillar was knocked, the neck took a hit at the same time? If it bugs you, take it back, they may be able to put it right for you.
Hope you can resolve it. M.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

could this also result in not playing in tune with the palm keys? D sounds way to sharp, D# and E is almost ok, E is ok. However using quick E and Quick F it is half a note to sharp.
Furthermore i replaced the original neck which has been damaged. I can check on saturday if the damage on the neck is on the same site as where the F#pillar had a knock probably.

 

[milandro]

I think that that kind of imperfection could’t do that while the height of the keys certainly can, palm keys are often sharp.

Bring the horn back and have it fixed, if that is not to your satisfaction, let it go.

 

[saxoclese]

When an alto neck receiver is out of round or has a bulge in it I have a set of plug pin gauges .917 to 1.00" that can be used to insert and tap them round again. The receivers on tenors are larger than 1" and unfortunately plug pin gauges above 1" are much more expensive for whatever reason. With the neck screw just barely tightened there should be no rocking of the neck. If the neck doesn't rock then there shouldn't be a problem. Checking neck tenons for leaks is a simple procedure provided one has a "Neck Checker Tool". I have found in some cases that just because a neck fit feels snug it can still be leaking if the tenon is slightly oval shaped. This in a lot of ways is the most critical area of the saxophone. If there is not an airtight connection between the neck and body, fixing leaks anywhere else will make very little difference in how the instrument responds and plays in the low register.

 

[turf3]

When an alto neck receiver is out of round or has a bulge in it I have a set of plug pin gauges .917 to 1.00" that can be used to insert and tap them round again. The receivers on tenors are larger than 1" and unfortunately plug pin gauges above 1" are much more expensive for whatever reason. With the neck screw just barely tightened there should be no rocking of the neck. If the neck doesn't rock then there shouldn't be a problem. Checking neck tenons for leaks is a simple procedure provided one has a "Neck Checker Tool". I have found in some cases that just because a neck fit feels snug it can still be leaking if the tenon is slightly oval shaped. This in a lot of ways is the most critical area of the saxophone. If there is not an airtight connection between the neck and body, fixing leaks anywhere else will make very little difference in how the instrument responds and plays in the low register.

Instead of using plug gauges (+/- 0.0001") as a mandrel for hammer forming, how about just getting a machinist to turn you a bunch of steel mandrels in small size increments? The accuracy of plug gauges is far higher than what you need. Pre-hardened 4140 is about 28 Rockwell C which ought to last a long time with gentle hammer blows on soft brass. I think one bar of that material is probably enough to make all the plugs you'd need and probably a few sets for your friends.