[Thelonioustopher]

Hello all, I've recently came to acquire a Varitone neck but it does not appear to have the pickup. Does anyone know of a replacement pickup that would fit the hole? Or would anyone have an original pickup they're looking to part with? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[blaine hoopes]

Not sure if this is of any help or not (probably not). But back in the day, I had one and compared the actual pickup element inside the housing and it was identical to what is inside one of these that I had from a 60's crystal radio kit. You can still buy these for about $6 and could fabricate a mounting nub to fit your socket. I did that very thing and I didn't hear any difference at all in sound between the cheap earphone and the varitone pickup. (i.e. your sax will sound like an electric kazoo even with the original pickup - but fun to run it thru a wah pedal)

 

[milandro]

interesting, it is actually very easy to find the necks with the varitone system but not as easy to find a working system and even less to find a working controller.

Indeed the mono earphones are rather common and their " reverse" use as a microphone may be possible. It will be cheap to explore that possibility beforehand. However if you have problems with the result you may want to check out one of the makers of new pick up microphone systems ( they normally work in a different way) and they may be able to adapt their system to your varitone neck

https://www.rumberger-soundproducts.de/en/

 

[blaine hoopes]

The old mono earphones from the 60's were a very lightweight shallow cone shaped diaphram of some sort of translucent white plastic with a small crystal glued to the center/peak of the diaphram. I haven't examined a modern one. As an earphone you send a tiny current waveform to the crystal and it vibrates the diaphram creating sound waves ... as a microphone the soundwaves move the diaphram vibrating the crystal creating a tiny current to be amplified by your amp/speaker/recorder etc.

As a bit of a sidetrack, this style earbud (magnetic - not crystal) makes an excellent mic for harmonica. Small enough to attach one bud onto a ring you slide on a finger so the bud sits inside your hand when cupping the harmonica. Run it into a small tube amp and it is blues harp heaven!

 

[swperry1]

I have a piezobarrel pickup to sell if you want to give it a try. The pickup Milandro linked is the exact same thing from what I can tell, just a different brand. I'm not familiar with how the varitone pickup attaches to the neck, but I assume there's a hole in the neck that the receiver for the piezobarrel could be attached (soldered) to. It takes a lot of eq to try to make it sound like a sax mic replacement (I'm sure the varitone sound is much worse Lol), but it's awesome as a way to create a signal that can be plugged into an effects unit directly. I like to also use a microphone, then I have control over blending the dry and processed sounds together when I want to. Send me a message if you're interested. I have two and only need one.
http://piezobarrel.com/

 

[Thelonioustopher]

you may want tocheck out one of the makers of new pick up microphone systems ( they normally warch in a different way) and they may be able to adapt their system to your varitone neck

Awesome, Thank you for all the replies so far, everyone! This may be the best thing to try! I've got a working cabinet and two working controllers. Just never could afford a neck with a pickup. If I'm able to install a newer mic system perhaps I can get an improved sound. The sound samples they have sound like pretty good quality. Excited to finally piece it all together. I've had all the other components for a number of years now just tucked away. I'll send an e-mail their way to see if I can get some more information.

 

[Dr G]

I suspect the reason that you need so much EQ is the impedance mismatch. Run it through a preamp with a high impedance input, and you will get better results. This is a common issue with piezoelectric pickups used in acoustic guitars.

I have a piezobarrel pickup to sell if you want to give it a try. The pickup Milandro linked is the exact same thing from what I can tell, just a different brand. I'm not familiar with how the varitone pickup attaches to the neck, but I assume there's a hole in the neck that the receiver for the piezobarrel could be attached (soldered) to. It takes a lot of eq to try to make it sound like a sax mic replacement (I'm sure the varitone sound is much worse Lol), but it's awesome as a way to create a signal that can be plugged into an effects unit directly. I like to also use a microphone, then I have control over blending the dry and processed sounds together when I want to. Send me a message if you're interested. I have two and only need one.
http://piezobarrel.com/

 

[swperry1]

I suspect the reason that you need so much EQ is the impedance mismatch. Run it through a preamp with a high impedance input, and you will get better results. This is a common issue with piezoelectric pickups used in acoustic guitars.

Do you have a recommendation? I'm not particularly versed in things such as matching impedance. I've tried a bunch of preamps, powered DI's with and without amp modeling and eq features, using a mixer channel specifically for the preamp and eq before running it through an effects loop, and a few other rigged setups with essentially the same result: a signal that works great for effects but a pretty bad representation of a simple amplified sax tone. According to the maker the signal is the same as the signal from a passive bass or guitar. It's plenty loud enough just plugged into the board or even into a pedal and out to an amp/ mixer, it just isn't a particularly good mic replacement for a no-effects sound. I have to cut the low end and crank the mids and highs to try to match what I get from a microphone.
And there of course exists the possibility that I'm doing something all-together wrong or expecting something unrealistic. I see plenty of videos of people using these to do all kinds of effects on everything from saxophones, trumpets, and clarinets to carrots and garden hoses, but never hear a sample of a dry tone.

 

[MartinMusicMan]

In the 60's I used a sax mic that was a crystal radio thingy attached to 4 elastic straps that you stretched out and hooked over the edges of the bell and the cord plugged into an amp or whatever we used for a PA. I've looked all over the interwebs for a pic or example and I can't find one. But I think the varitone mic was the same type because that's all there really was back in the day. Vocal mics and guitar pickups were huge and couldn't really be attached to a sax very easily. There were several attempts though. Mostly, I played into a stand mic. I don't remember the sound I got with the strap-on mic (don't google that phrase) although I don't remember it as bad. But the total volume of guitars, bass, vocals was much less back then so I think the acoustic sound of the sax came through as well as the amplified sound. At today's volumes, you need a much better quality mic and amplification system.

 

[blaine hoopes]

Do you have a recommendation? I'm not particularly versed in things such as matching impedance. I've tried a bunch of preamps, powered DI's with and without amp modeling and eq features, using a mixer channel specifically for the preamp and eq before running it through an effects loop, and a few other rigged setups with essentially the same result: a signal that works great for effects but a pretty bad representation of a simple amplified sax tone. According to the maker the signal is the same as the signal from a passive bass or guitar. It's plenty loud enough just plugged into the board or even into a pedal and out to an amp/ mixer, it just isn't a particularly good mic replacement for a no-effects sound. I have to cut the low end and crank the mids and highs to try to match what I get from a microphone.
And there of course exists the possibility that I'm doing something all-together wrong or expecting something unrealistic. I see plenty of videos of people using these to do all kinds of effects, but never hear a sample of a dry tone.

If you want to experiment at very low cost, Behringer makes a knock off piezo pickup preamp/EQ/DI that is designed for taking Piezo pickups from acoustic guitar. They used to be available for about $30-40 and may be discontinued but easy to find used. Behringer V-Tone ADI-21. I've used their knockoffs for bass and for electric guitar and they sound very good for cheap money (but blatant rip off of SansAmp tech21 designs). If you want to avoid knockoffs you can shop tech21 or fishman for quality and expensive gear that will handle the piezo transducers.

I'm guessing most anything (including the crystal radio earpieces) today will probably have one of those piezo wafers attached to some sort of diaphram. The crystal elements I looked at back in the 60's-70's had an actual crystal (a tiny rock) glued to a diaphragm. I'm not sure what the impedance difference might be between that type of crystal and a modern piezo wafer transducer.

 

[Tharruff]

The problem is that you need a pickup that fits the threaded hole of a Selmer Varitone neck which probably will be ONLY a Selmer Varitone pickup...

 

[Thelonioustopher]

The problem is that you need a pickup that fits the threaded hole of a Selmer Varitone neck which probably will be ONLY a Selmer Varitone pickup...

Ah, okay. I haven't received the neck in the mail yet so I can't inspect it at the moment. There are threads on the soldered cup that the Varitone pickup screws into? Suppose if that's the case getting another type might make it a little more difficult. These pictures make is seem like it might be tension fit. https://bassic-sax.info/blog/2010/looking-for-a-varitone-neck-microphone-for-your-mark-vi-alto/

 

[blaine hoopes]

Ah, okay. I haven't received the neck in the mail yet so I can't inspect it at the moment. There are threads on the soldered cup that the Varitone pickup screws into? Suppose if that's the case getting another type might make it a little more difficult.

You could measure the threads and fabricate something or even use a tap/die of the right size/thread and cut the plastic ear plug piece on the crystal earpiece to fit the threads on the varitone socket.

 

[blaine hoopes]

Another bit of sidetrack here .... (sorry, I can't resist) .... anyone else here ever use the Barcus Berry pickup that you stuck to the reed with putty? haha, that was hilarious trying to keep that transducer from falling off the reed. I think I tried every sort of electric pickup on the market as I was running thru an echoplex and wah pedal and a mutron octave divider. Those were the days!

 

[swperry1]

The problem is that you need a pickup that fits the threaded hole of a Selmer Varitone neck which probably will be ONLY a Selmer Varitone pickup...

I just looked at a few random pics of the receiver without the pickup screwed in to see what's there... a hole and a threaded(?) receiver. It would appear that if the threads of the piezobarrel or rumberger pickup fit then they would work, or you could simply attach the fixture provided with them to what's there and be good to go.

 

[swperry1]

Another bit of sidetrack here .... (sorry, I can't resist) .... anyone else here ever use the Barcus Berry pickup that you stuck to the reed with putty? haha, that was hilarious trying to keep that transducer from falling off the reed. I think I tried every sort of electric pickup on the market as I was running thru an echoplex and wah pedal and a mutron octave divider. Those were the days!

I don't know if it's the Barcus Berry pickup specifically he uses, but Ryan Zoidis (Lettuce) uses one that attaches to the reed like that and secures it with electrical tape. Runs it through a vintage guitar synth and also uses a stand mic. I believe he uses a volume pedal for both-or maybe volume on the mic and expression on the synth-so he can blend them. There's a youtube video where he runs through his setup and talks about it a bit. He's the one who turned me onto the piezobarrel and now he's moved on.

 

[blaine hoopes]

It was listening to Traffic's album, John Barleycorn Must Die in 1970 and that's when I went out and bought the pickup and soldered the cup on my flute and sax and ran them thru echoplex etc. Chris Wood had the pickup on his sax - looks like it was on his mouthpiece rather than the neck in this video. I know I tried it both places and I had a lot of trouble with a drop of moisture blocking the hole (worse when on the mouthpiece, better when on the neck) and I'd have to blow or shake the water out every once in awhile:

EDIT: I remember that there was a Maestro box that had all sorts of sounds when you ran the pickup thru it. I never bought that but I tested it out at the music store a lot and thought about buying it.

 

[warp x]

It was listening to Traffic's album, John Barleycorn Must Die in 1970 and that's when I went out and bought the pickup and soldered the cup on my flute and sax and ran them thru echoplex etc. Chris Wood had the pickup on his sax - looks like it was on his mouthpiece rather than the neck in this video. I know I tried it both places and I had a lot of trouble with a drop of moisture blocking the hole (worse when on the mouthpiece, better when on the neck) and I'd have to blow or shake the water out every once in awhile:

EDIT: I remember that there was a Maestro box that had all sorts of sounds when you ran the pickup thru it. I never bought that but I tested it out at the music store a lot and thought about buying it.

Maestro Sound System for Woodwinds. I have one here. Good sounding unit, I recorded a lot of stuff with it. Maestro had a lot of other interesting boxes, the most fun of which was the Rhythm 'n Sound for guitar. Got that one too.

 

[Thelonioustopher]

Sounds like Rumberger can make their pickup fit whatever the size. Got an e-mail back from them today:

"Hello,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Please measure the inner diameter and the outer diameter of the Varitone cartridge sleeve.

Whatever the size, we can always adapt our sleeve to fit your S-bow.
You would then have to send the S-bow to us.

I hope this helps you."

Sounds like I may get a modern pickup in this yet.

 

[swperry1]

That’s awesome.