Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I dont post much, or rather havent posted much because I havent had much time to play. When I regularly played, I regularly posted, to show how long ago I regularly posted let me say that this is the second username I have made in several years because I keep forgetting the others.

I want to start playing again because something inside is calling for it. Right now I still have the first sax I ever owned and learned on, it is a YTS-23. I aquired it in I think 2000. Its in mint condition, I mean absolutely unbelievable for its age and I even bought it second hand on ebay. My main problem is that I just dont like its sound, and I dont like how it plays. A while, and I mean a while back I played a selmer mark 6 at a sam ash here in NY and I was in love.

My goal right now is to sell my YTS-23 via ebay and recoup some of my money. Now I cant afford a selmer mark 6 and if I did honestly its outside my abilities and my frequency of playing doesnt nessesitate such an instrument.

I have been out of the market for a while so I just dont know whats good. I would like to get something used to get more for my money, something in the neighborhood of 1000 - 1500 bucks, and a tenor.

I play big band, blues, not so much jazz so the edginess is not a priority and whatever genre you could toss the song "Careless Whispers" into.;)

Some suggestions would be great.

I greatly appreciate it.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010
Joined
·
3,310 Posts
You sound like a candidate for the B&S experience.

Used 2001 / Allora / Guardala / Medussa and the other stencils I probably missed is in the price range quoted, and will knock your socks off for that fat sound and modern first class build quality.
 

·
Researcher, Teacher and Horn Revitalizer, Forum Co
Joined
·
3,505 Posts
So you are looking for a tenor (per the Y(T)S).
In the used arena I recommend
Couf Superba 2s
aka Keilwerth SX-90s
Yamaha 52s (they have different keywork than the 23 and are more 62ish)
Yanigasawa 901s

they all sound different, unfortunately, so i'd go with the Couf (but i'm also keen on Coufs)
There's many US vintage horns too and I tend to like the Martins though I can't recall if the Comm IIs are in the price range you have

the one more important aspect of it is to get a good mouthpiece. Those will affect your tone too. and a teach will affect everything for the good part

AND . .welcome back
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I have never heard of Couf, is this a new company?

I have been browsing around and I find it quite amazing that the asian brands are so popular. I remember back in the day when people wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole.

I actually have a decent mouthpiece, a Runyon custom 6 with spoiler.

Canadiain said:
You sound like a candidate for the B&S experience.

Used 2001 / Allora / Guardala / Medussa and the other stencils I probably missed is in the price range quoted, and will knock your socks off for that fat sound and modern first class build quality.
What is the B&S experience?

Never heard of any of the brands you mentioned :(, I have been out a while.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010
Joined
·
3,310 Posts
Coufs were made by Keilwerth I believe. Herbert Couf himself was something to do with Bundy / Selmer and Armstrong in US in the 50s? I think the last ones were made in the 80s but could be mistaken?

The B&S experience is finding you dont need to pay the premium for a big 4 branded horn or spent $4k to get a great horn:)

B&S is short for some long german words (Blechblas-und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik)and they are a respected maker of brass, who dabbled in saxes for quite a while, building from east german roots. They made hand made german horns from the same corner of Europe as Keilwerth, Kohlert, Amati etc with a very MkVI like tone and core, with some slick keywork incorporating things like the no stick G# mechanism thats can be seen on current Keilwerths.

Top notch horns, but unfortunately they messed up there marketing strategy something awful by making stencil horns under a variety of different names (some are mentioned above), and never could make money on them trying to sell against the established brand leaders for $4000-5000, so they gave up and went back to trumpets in 2005 and most of the artisans went to work for Keilwerth I think. Their last hurrah was the B&S Medussa, an evolution of the "2001" model. The 2001 was also sold under various other brand names... Allora, Guardala, Chicago Jazz Series (CJS) and a few others. The horns, though excellent, were being discounted below $1300 in the end, and if anything the value of them on the used market has increased a little since then as their reputation has grown. You have to be carefull though as "Allora", CJS and 'Guardalas" are still available, but no longer made by B&S. If its a B&S generation one it says "made in germany" on it.

Keilwerth, Yanagisawa and Yamaha are considered 3 of the "big 4" (along with Selmer) so if you haven't heard of them its time to do a bit of homework...there are sub-forums for most reputable brands here... tons of information on almost everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Oh I have heard of the big four before, I am not that out of date. I was more concerned with which models to look at because there are just so many and I just dont have the time to go and test drive them in the stores. Plus I doubt the stores will have the older models in stock that I can find on ebay.

edit: stevesklar, I just looked on ebay for the horns you mentioned. Found only the Yamaha, :( but there is a YTS52 on there now, that I am looking at. http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-YTS-52-T...ryZ16234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Whats the approx price difference and real world difference between the 52 and 62?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
Joined
·
5,183 Posts
You sound like a prime candidate for the Buescher experience. 156 model tenors are available in good condition in your price range.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,517 Posts
I was kinda wondering that myself. How long has it been since you had it into the shop?

Also any horn you get will need some shop time just starting out. So I would budget that in if you did choose to get a new horn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Carbs said:
I was kinda wondering that myself. How long has it been since you had it into the shop?

Also any horn you get will need some shop time just starting out. So I would budget that in if you did choose to get a new horn.
It hasn't been in the shop since I got it when I had one pad replaced. 7 years or so ago.

Its just so difficult to play. Especially the low C, I mean I gotta force the damn thing out. It just doesn't play as easily as it should or I think it should.

SaxyAcoustician said:
Are you sure a new horn is what you need? The Yamaha 23 is a good horn.
I dunno. :D

Thought its time to move on, while im at it get a new one. Maybe I want one for the wrong reasons.

------

Man you guys speak reason. Maybe I should just go drop it off at a shop for an overhaul.

You guys know any good, reliable places in NY?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,517 Posts
I am not sure the horn needs an overhaul, but it will at least need some adjustments, maybe some new pads. Its been sitting around while, I say give it a chance after you get it back from the tech. You may save yourself a bundle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
I have a YTS23 myself. When I got it (used) the low notes were also hard to play. They got much easier after taking it to the tech. He replaced 1 pad and did some other miscellaneous adjustments -- around $50 in total, and the horn plays much better now. I would consider getting an estimate from a local tech before buying a new horn.

Just my two cents, best of luck with your music :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
SamL01 said:
Its just so difficult to play. Especially the low C, I mean I gotta force the damn thing out. It just doesn't play as easily as it should or I think it should.
Sounds like your horn's got some major leakage. Seal those leaks and blow again. Guaranteed that you will fall in love with your horn all over again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yea, you guys speak the voice of reason. Ill look for a place around where I work, and try to drop it off.

To bad SOW doesnt keep a database of places around the world, just people submitted data.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
So I am thinking of just getting the whole thing repadded. It hasn't been in 7 years, and with the advances in kangaroo skin pads it seems a worthwhile investment while its in the shop. I am thinking the Sax Gourmet Airtight Star style pads. Figure I could order the pads and take em to the shop for installation?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010
Joined
·
3,310 Posts
Not worth sinking that much into a 23. Get it playable first, then decide if its worth the considerable cost of a full repad. My guess is not, it wont fix the tone of a 23 anyway:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Canadiain said:
Not worth sinking that much into a 23. Get it playable first, then decide if its worth the considerable cost of a full repad. My guess is not, it wont fix the tone of a 23 anyway:)
Alright, that is a good point.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,033 Posts
Get it adjusted and get a new mouthpiece. It will feel like a new horn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
SamL01 said:
So I am thinking of just getting the whole thing repadded. It hasn't been in 7 years, and with the advances in kangaroo skin pads it seems a worthwhile investment while its in the shop. I am thinking the Sax Gourmet Airtight Star style pads. Figure I could order the pads and take em to the shop for installation?
Not a good idea. Might as well put that kind of money into a new horn.

Also, pads are pads. As long as they're sealing they're doing their job.

Just get your horn to seal, then practice your butt off (everyday at least a couple hours). That is the only guarantee that your horn will sound REALLY good. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
SaxyAcoustician said:
Not a good idea. Might as well put that kind of money into a new horn.

Also, pads are pads. As long as they're sealing they're doing their job.

Just get your horn to seal, then practice your butt off (everyday at least a couple hours). That is the only guarantee that your horn will sound REALLY good. :)
couple of hours, yea thats gonna be difficult. :( I work 9 - 5, go to the gym 3 days a week. The days I dont train im home at 6 because of my commute. Hard to play that late because I have neighbors. Life sucks when you work in corporate.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top