Don't let the snobbery get you down. As music goes, it's an unfortunate fact of life. BTW, In my sordid past, I traded a minty SBA for a Super 20 that's more brass than lacquer. The S20 is far better for me and I've been playing it for 20 some-odd years now.
Need to get this off my chest......
OK, for a start this is not directed specifically at anyone here- I love you all! But, I am totally tired of the Selmer SBA and 5 digit VI snobbery that I have seen and heard on the net and around town lately, more the latter than the former. This has been building up over the last few years. I have no problem with people wanting to play Selmers, but I have a problem with selmer players telling me that I won't sound good unless I play one of these hideously overpriced saxophones. Apparently, I discovered the other day, I will never sound like a 'true' jazz player on my martins and vintages Keilwerths. I bit my tongue at this because the person is a friend but, sorry, what a loud of @*&!! For a start, I don't consider myself solely a 'jazz' player, but in any case I love the sound of Martins, Conns, Buescher and old german horns and I personally find Selmers to feel and sound smal and unresonant in comparison. A colleage recently paid AUD$10k for a silverplate VI which I absolutely HATED! It was the driest, most unresonant, most un-singing saxophone I've ever played but he loves it because its a silverplate VI.......:!:
Who cares if your horn wasn't made at 9:24am on Sept 9th, 1958??? Who cares if your horn is a relacquer and has been buffed??? Does it REALLY MATTER AT ALL that Joe Lovano has a silver plate SBA and you don't????
IF ITS A SAXOPHONE THAT YOU LIKE, PLAY IT AND ENJOY. IF SOMEONE ELSE IS PLAYING A HORN THAT YOU DON'T LIKE- LEAVE THEM ALONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, I will close by saying that I love reading what people here write because it is nice to interact with folks who are more open minded and less parochial.
thankyou for listening and I hope I didn't offend anyone- I just had to get that off my chest and being the awesome, openminded folk you are I thought this would be a good place to do it.
Who cares if your horn wasn't made at 9:24am on Sept 9th, 1958??? Who cares if your horn is a relacquer and has been buffed??? Does it REALLY MATTER AT ALL that Joe Lovano has a silver plate SBA and you don't????
IF ITS A SAXOPHONE THAT YOU LIKE, PLAY IT AND ENJOY. IF SOMEONE ELSE IS PLAYING A HORN THAT YOU DON'T LIKE- LEAVE THEM ALONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, I will close by saying that I love reading what people here write because it is nice to interact with folks who are more open minded and less parochial.
thankyou for listening and I hope I didn't offend anyone- I just had to get that off my chest and being the awesome, openminded folk you are I thought this would be a good place to do it.
1 - 20 of 177 Posts
Alot of people probably do not realize that SBAs and Mk VIs were handmade and quality varies. There are some great VIs,so so VIs and bad VIs. Same for the SBAs.And this is according to people in the know who I trust. I tried a low Bb baritone VI at USA horn. I like my super action 80 series I better. One day I would like to try a bunch of SBAs and VIs in alto and tenor form to see what all the hype is. I agree w/ you Benny it is more the player mouthpiece than the sax.
Ben,
Whereabouts are you located?
Whereabouts are you located?
Only one thing shuts people up. Your playing.
Good on you Benny! A sax is a sax, if you are good on a sax you'll be good on any sax (as long as it's in a good state of repair). Here's a little story (not his exact words) my saxophonist grandad used to tell (he died in 1976), long before I started playing sax myself:-
A young player on a new shiny sax is busking and he sounds terrible, he can't play it at all. An old man with a battered old sax in an old battered case comes along and starts to play and... he can't play either!
People say that a certain make of sax, a student one, if you will, will 'hold you back' - how, exactly? I've been playing for eleven years and ten months; eleven years and four months on my B & S-made 'Meister' alto - what could I do on a super duper Selmer that I couldn't do on mine? Apart from being stone broke from buying a Selmer?
A young player on a new shiny sax is busking and he sounds terrible, he can't play it at all. An old man with a battered old sax in an old battered case comes along and starts to play and... he can't play either!
People say that a certain make of sax, a student one, if you will, will 'hold you back' - how, exactly? I've been playing for eleven years and ten months; eleven years and four months on my B & S-made 'Meister' alto - what could I do on a super duper Selmer that I couldn't do on mine? Apart from being stone broke from buying a Selmer?
After the Ashes, I never thought I'd agree with an Ocker but egad sir, you are correct.
Perhaps we should equip our batsmen with bad Mk VIs and SBAs, they'd have to use them better than the bits of ash they are using ay present.
Perhaps we should equip our batsmen with bad Mk VIs and SBAs, they'd have to use them better than the bits of ash they are using ay present.
I hate sport but will weigh in here - they'd play just as badly with good Mark VIs and SBAs. But having a Super Balanced Action might help them hit the ball! You realise that a beat up old Selmer would still command thousands from Selmer-brainwashed players...old git said:After the Ashes, I never thought I'd agree with an Ocker but egad sir, you are correct.
Perhaps we should equip our batsmen with bad Mk VIs and SBAs, they'd have to use them better than the bits of ash they are using ay present.
True words of wisdom :thumbrig:heath said:Only one thing shuts people up. Your playing.
Just think of it this way... Do to these horns popularity, there are more players out there who sound like crap on a SBA or Mark VI than any other sax.
When confronted with the typical sandbox talk of "mine is better than yours" B.S., please remain quiet and let your playing do the talking.
'nough said.
Their are a lot of hype surronding Vintage Horns, espicially the vintage Selmers. I am glad to play a Martin Handcraft, and I am prouder that I bought it with my own money that I worked hard for. And if some snobbish Saxophone professor in college tells me I need to upgrade to a Selmer I will be tempted to tell him to shove it. 
maybe.
Is their something wrong with having pride in your sax? No I don't think their is anything wrong with it. But as I read in another thread and I agree with a Horn is a very personal thing. Selmers for a long time have been top of the line, and before that it was the Conn's. But as Heath said, Benny they WILL SHUT UP when they hear you play. And do it on some great handmade non selmer Vintage horn, and enjoy the price you paid for it. Would I trade my MArtin for a Selmer Mark VI, never.
maybe. Is their something wrong with having pride in your sax? No I don't think their is anything wrong with it. But as I read in another thread and I agree with a Horn is a very personal thing. Selmers for a long time have been top of the line, and before that it was the Conn's. But as Heath said, Benny they WILL SHUT UP when they hear you play. And do it on some great handmade non selmer Vintage horn, and enjoy the price you paid for it. Would I trade my MArtin for a Selmer Mark VI, never.
Jerry Bergonzi's favorite horn is a Selmer Super (circa early thirties) Similar horns sell in the $2500-3000 range. Jerry also plays (from time to time) Conn 10M's, reference 54's and 36's, and of course, 5-digit Selmers.
Joe Lovano can, and will, try anything. He's been known to play Conn Chu tenors in addition to his SBA. His mind is open to the sonic possibilities of a variety of horns, old and new. That's why he's Joe Lovano and your "pals" aren't.
The PLAYER makes the horn, not the other way around. Jerry sounds better on a Conn than anyone else (living, in the jazz biz) playing anything.
Just so you'll know, most (not ALL) silver plated MKVI's are lousy instruments. They are as dull as a lead pipe. They don't ring. They lack resonance. (how many ways can I say it?) Once in a while I'll come across one that's okay, but I generally avoid them 'cause I know how lousy they are. The price has to be VERY attractive for me even to consider buying a silver VI. Same for the SBA.
I've owned hundreds of tenors, MKVI as well as SBA, Conn etc.....Thousands have come through my shop.
Joe Lovano can, and will, try anything. He's been known to play Conn Chu tenors in addition to his SBA. His mind is open to the sonic possibilities of a variety of horns, old and new. That's why he's Joe Lovano and your "pals" aren't.
The PLAYER makes the horn, not the other way around. Jerry sounds better on a Conn than anyone else (living, in the jazz biz) playing anything.
Just so you'll know, most (not ALL) silver plated MKVI's are lousy instruments. They are as dull as a lead pipe. They don't ring. They lack resonance. (how many ways can I say it?) Once in a while I'll come across one that's okay, but I generally avoid them 'cause I know how lousy they are. The price has to be VERY attractive for me even to consider buying a silver VI. Same for the SBA.
I've owned hundreds of tenors, MKVI as well as SBA, Conn etc.....Thousands have come through my shop.
Never truer words have been spoken!tjontheroad said:Just think of it this way... Due to these horns popularity, there are more players out there who sound like crap on a SBA or Mark VI than any other sax... please remain quiet and let your playing do the talking!
One picture may be worth a thousand words but you're just trying to justify your needless outlay. It's a sax with a feq scratches and dents on it, that you paid over the odds for.
Get over it, Benny. Why should you care what anyone else says unless you, too, are somehow wrapped up in the whole horn snobbery issues? It sounds like you have your own axe to grind - in a reverse discrimination kind of way. You seem to be making a big thing about dissin' your friend's Mk VI. Does that make you feel any better?Benny said:OK, for a start this is not directed specifically at anyone here- I love you all! But, I am totally tired of the Selmer SBA and 5 digit VI snobbery that I have seen and heard on the net and around town lately, more the latter than the former. This has been building up over the last few years. I have no problem with people wanting to play Selmers, but I have a problem with selmer players telling me that I won't sound good unless I play one of these hideously overpriced saxophones.
Let it go.
I bought that last year for 2 thousand gota love that.
More money than sense.jimmitch said:I bought that last year for 2 thousand gota love that.
Not at all. I'm gonna skip SOTW for a while, it all reminds me of this: :banghead:cleger said:huh??!!
That was uncalled for.
Yep - on both parties. Bragging and sniping are equally reprehensible in my book. I understand that Sax' is a little upset today since one of his students didn't follow his ADVICE or SUGGESTIONS. I'm starting to understand why...cleger said:huh??!!
That was uncalled for.
1 - 20 of 177 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Sax on the Web Forum
A forum community dedicated to saxophone players and enthusiasts originally founded by Harri Rautiainen. Come join the discussion about collections, care, displays, models, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
SHOZZA
448 Replies
belliott
367 Replies
jazzbluescat
336 Replies
Recommended Communities
