[SE_HORNS]

Hope everyone gone is well.

Recently I’ve been really struggling with reeds. I’ve been playing my 10m with a 5* Link and Rico Royals 2.5s.

On the couple of reeds that I’ve had success with out of the box, the setup is really really free blowing and easy to play. But then, when I’ve gone to break in new reeds, some have been either totally dead and unresponsive (like I am trying to blow through a baseball ball) and the others are just really stubborn.

As I said before, I have had the perfect results with some reeds so I don’t think the issue is anything I am doing. Needless to mention that the base of a lot of the reeds are totally asymmetrical... I get that reeds need breaking into but I feel these are just a step too far.

I’m looking at trying a pack of Rigotti Gold, do people think I might see better results going up a to a 3? I know that the genuine rule of thumb is that with a more closed tip opening you are better to go with a harder read (and vice versa).

Please let me know, it’s driving me mad.

Cheers

 

[milandro]

Reeds rarely are all the same, they are a natural product and the fibers will differ even on the same cane , think that the sunny side will grow differently from the one in the shadow ( for density and length of the cells).

The only “ measured” paramenter is the flexibility at the tip which generally gives you some sort of “ size” value but there is more than that to it when it comes to sound production.

So, reeds differ quite a bit one from the other, even though they may have the same thickness ( reeds are all shaped all the same and THEN measured for size).

I play very light 2 Rigotti or Alexander reeds ( but my mouthpiece is a 7*) , MOST are to my liking straight out of the box and only sometimes I have to adjust them.

This is MY personal way to do that.

First choose the size that , on average, fits your playing the most.

If a reed is unresponsive to its core sound ( would feel like you are more or less trying to blow on a ice lolly stick) then I adjust the core, below the vamp but don’t obsess even if you scrape a bit of the vamp) , I use a scraping knife (not one for reeds but one I found myself, any knife could do doesn’t have to be very sharp) and I scrape small amounts until I reach more or less what I want, then for finer adjustment I use a fine but not ultra fine canoe whetstone for gardening tools.

Sometimes the strength is fine ( blows well) but I miss some buzz, in that case I pass a couple of times the tip(top and bottom) onto the whetstone until the buzz suits me.

Many spend a long time trying to play reeds that are too thick for their playing , I did this too, untile I discovered that I was better off with thinner reeds . They require more blowing control.

I also clip reeds, and adjust similarly the reed after clipping. One reed may last me a really long time these days and I only throw them out if they seem to be hopeless.

 

[1saxman]

Just a thought, maybe not your solution, but I went through this for YEARS until I finally started an overhaul program on my most-used saxes, two tenors and the alto. Amazingly, most reeds play now. This was not an overnight thing - even with pro overhauls, I still had to work on the horns to get them right. Maybe you don't need an overhaul on your horn, just a few things fixed. It could be something as simple as a bad octave pad or a small leak in another upper pad. Fitment of the neck to the sax is another trouble spot.
Just saying, get the horn right and more reeds will play.
BTW, your set-up is very 'light' and should play easily with harder reeds, like #3 and higher, so this adds the possibility of a mouthpiece problem to it unless nothing has changed with the piece and this reed problem is new.

 

[lydian]

Walk us through your routine. For example, do you store the reeds in a holder that keeps them flat? Do you soak them a couple of minutes before you try to play them? Are they wavy or flat when you first play them? Did you know you could hold the tip of the reed on a flat surface and flick the other end, and the oscillation will straighten out a warped reed?

I agree that's a light setup you've got. But keep in mind that Rico Royal runs on the hard side, hence your problems with some being too hard. You're correct that closed mouthpieces can take harder reeds than open ones. But the main consideration is what hardness you can support with your embouchure and air support. I don't know how long you've been playing, but a beginner will usually have to start off on a 1.5 or 2 until their embouchure is developed. To me it sounds you've gotten lucky and found a few soft reeds in the box. But when you get a hard one, it's unplayable for you. That means you need to stick with softer ones for now. So I'd try a 2 and see how that goes. If you switch brands, the numbers may also have a different meaning, so look at a chart first to see what's on the softer side.

It's also possible your horn has a leak as others have said. That can make playing much more difficult.

 

[milandro]

I think OP is talking of out of the box reeds

 

[lydian]

I think OP is talking of out of the box reeds

Even so, is he wetting them at all, or just putting them directly on the mouthpiece? You can't take anything for granted around here. I've seen a lot of things I would never have imagined.

 

[JL]

I'm looking at trying a pack of Rigotti Gold...

Yes, definitely give the Rigottis a try. Be sure to get a box, not just one reed.

But the fact is, reeds are inconsistent and so you'll always find that some play better than others. Some play great right out of the box, some play better after a couple of playing sessions, some need adjustment, some won't play well at all. But I've found Rigottis to be very good overall and pretty consistent, as reeds go...

 

[swperry1]

Provided you’re doing basic reed stuff correctly (wetting/ soaking a bit before playing and storing flat so they don’t dry too warped, etc) it sounds like what mdavej said up there about the ones that are working for you being the softer ones in the box is probably a good starting point. I haven’t played a rico royal in a really long time, so check the strength charts. If they do run strong as someone mentioned, then maybe the 2.5 “light” from Rigotti, a medium soft LaVoz, or maybe even a 2.5 rico orange would be a good place to look for a new box as they’d be an easier blow. If the chart says they’re equals with the brands I mentioned, then maybe drop down one size. Some people really enjoy “working” on reeds, but you can’t really get into that stuff until you know what you like in a reed that really works for you...I like to find the brand and strength that gives me the most players out of the box, then just do some very small adjustments on the few that might be a little off. Good luck!

 

[datsaxman]

You might do well to get comfortable with adjusting the reeds. Get harder if you like how those play, and softer if you like how those play.

Expecting them to all just work out of the box is a recipe for some disappointment for any brand or strength.

Still, not all will be great even with work. But most will play pretty well.

 

[SE_HORNS]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry I’ve been really busy with work but will make the time to reply to you all tonight after work.

Cheers

 

[blaine hoopes]

I don't know much about today's supply of sax reeds and how they compare to reeds of my era (60's and 70's -- I'm an old guy). Back then I really wanted to learn to adjust reeds and I tried every trick known to man and occasionally made a reed play better but usually ruined them. HOWEVER I never threw away any bad playing reeds, I packed them away for that "someday" when I would have the time and the tools and the skill to make them play. So I have a large stash of reeds from the 60's and 70's and I've been reworking them and having great success these days. I'll never have to buy a new reed in my lifetime.

Anyway ... the way I dealt with new reeds was to take about four new reeds (because my ancient reedguard held 4 reeds and had numbers stamped into the guard 1 thru 4) and wet them and let them rest several minutes in the reedguard to absorb that moisture. Then I would play about 5-10 minutes on each reed - even if the reed felt way too stiff and stuffy I would play them regardless of how stuffy they were. Then put the reed back in the reedguard and play the next reed for 5-10 minutes. Then put those reeds aside (in the reedguard) and do the rest of my practicing/playing on a known good reed. Then the next day go thru the same playing each reed for 10 minutes and put them away. Often those too stiff and stuffy reeds will open right up after 4-5 days of playing like that.

Reeds that are too soft are easy to clip back a tiny bit. Reeds that are too stiff take a little work to remove material in the right place and it takes a lot of practice (ruining a lot of reeds) to learn but it's well worth the effort. I've gotten good enough at it that if I chip or crack a tenor reed so far back that it can't be clipped and made to play, I will carve it in to an alto reed.

There are lots of good books and articles online about how to adjust reeds.

 

[skeller047]

How many saxophone players are there in the world? Take that number and multiply by (at least) 2 and that's how many different ways there are to deal with reeds.

My process FWIW, is to BALANCE the reeds first. Because, as Milandro pointed out, the density of the cane will vary from area to area of the reed, most reeds are a little bit stiffer on one side than the other. So when I take a new reed out of the box, I test it after getting it wet, by rotating or twisting the mouthpiece first up one side then the other, pushing the opposite side down on my lip. I do this with just the neck and the mouthpiece, because it's easier than twisting the whole horn.

If the left side of the reed is pushed into my lip, I'm playing mostly on the right side, and vice versa. I play a long note with a crescendo or diminuendo, and then sand the side of the reed that's harder. Repeat until both sides are to my liking. If the whole reed is too hard, then sand both sides, but still aim to make them play the same way.

Once done, I put the reed in my case and play it in rotation with my others, I don't bother with breaking in (I used to but quit doing it many years ago when I discovered it had no effect on longevity or playability).

I'm an old guy too, and I've been doing it this way for many years, and I rarely throw a reed out. Some die young, some live to be a ripe old age, most last about 25-30 hours of hard playing. I think playing in rotation (using a different reed every day, or maybe two reeds in a day if I play a lot) makes them last longer, but I've had reeds that last a long time when playing the same reed day after day. (6 weeks of 2 shows, 6 nights a week was the longest.)

You just have to find a way that works for you, there are many suggestions and approaches in this thread, and about a gazillion more if you search SOTW. Good luck!

 

[blaine hoopes]

Great post by Steve Keller ^

 

[whaler]

Rigotti and Links are a great match. Try 3M and see what happens. They remind me of the way the old Brown Box Ricos played, nice and edgy.
The cheapest I’ve found them are Dillon Music and Fred Weiner.

 

[Canadiain]

All natural cane reeds are going vary. The Ridenour ATG reed system works miracles for me in getting almost every reed in a box singing. Its pretty foolproof and easy to use. No rocket science, its just the knowledge/method that you are paying for rather than the kit itself, but its paid for itself many times over in the reeds its saved for me. No blade involved so hard to bugger a reed up with it. https://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/atg-reed-system.html

 

[skeller047]

Rigotti and Links are a great match. Try 3M and see what happens. They remind me of the way the old Brown Box Ricos played, nice and edgy.
The cheapest I've found them are Dillon Music and Fred Weiner.

Exactly. I'm currently playing some old Brown Box Rico V-3 1/2s from 1983 on alto. Damn I wish they still made those reeds. I have almost 2 boxes (of 25!) left.

For tenor, Rigotti is the closest match to those.

 

[Rumbabajabba]

Try Gonzalez Local 627. I'm no reed expert or junkie but they've been most consistent and best sounding of all that I've played by a good amount (like 4-5 out of 5 play good). I've tried 2.5, 3, 3.5. 3 is the sweet spot for me, ymmv.
They're pretty cheap too lol.
They sound excellent with a Link

 

[SE_HORNS]

Thanks guys,

just suddenly realised I never got round to replying.

Found success with Rigotti Gold 2.5s, I ordered a box of 2.5s and 3s and the 2.5s are what I'm working with at the minute. The reed im using at the minute works pretty perfectly for me. I actually founda video online on giving reeds a very light rubbing on a sheet of printing paper, just until its smooth. This, in combination with the move to Rigottis has meant that me reeds are playing much closer to how I want them straight out of the box and then with a few days of playing, they're fully broken in.

Thanks

 

[swperry1]

Thanks guys,

just suddenly realised I never got round to replying.

Found success with Rigotti Gold 2.5s, I ordered a box of 2.5s and 3s and the 2.5s are what I'm working with at the minute. The reed im using at the minute works pretty perfectly for me. I actually founda video online on giving reeds a very light rubbing on a sheet of printing paper, just until its smooth. This, in combination with the move to Rigottis has meant that me reeds are playing much closer to how I want them straight out of the box and then with a few days of playing, they're fully broken in.

Thanks

Yes! Glad you found a good match! Happy playing.