[Johnnya101]

Hello,

I have inherited a family members True Tone alto. Now, from what I understand these are not worth too much, but it was part of the family since new, so obviously I would like to save it. However, it has not had a case since the 60s... and has been stored in a basement... So. Corrosion. It is currently dark brown. I have it ina box right now soaking in PB Blaster. The results look promising and everything is loosening up.

There is a long rod that was in the box originally, not sure what key since it was off and I usually play tenor soan alto is a bit different. Rod is about a foot long with a pad cup on it. It is held in place with two pivot screws. One pivot screw is intact. The other was sheared off so the pivot itself is rusted inside the rod, luckily it is not threaded in there.

What is my best course of action with this? There is nothing sticking out. Flat.

 

[Grumps]

What is my best course of action with this? There is nothing sticking out. Flat.

Now folks are going to say you're wasting your time, but you understand the value of these horns and why fixing it up wouldn't be cost effective. And I get why. It's something you treasure from your family. With that said, how much are you willing to spend? If the horn still has its original silver plate underneath, you might be in luck and won't need to refinish the horn. However, the parts are likely shot. But here's where you're in luck. These horns are a dime a dozen on ebay. Just find one of a similar vintage and use its parts to rebuild the horn you have. If you pay someone to do this for you, you might be able to get it all done for less than a grand (including the cost of purchasing a donor model). And in the end, you'll have a pretty decent horn (I play one myself).

 

[Johnnya101]

It is brass, not the silver plate model. No lacquer either, so nothing to destroy, lol. I just planned on polishing it (And of course replacing the cork and pads, etc) I work with typewriters and am familiar with small mechanical parts. Not afraid of diving into this.

If, say, I wanted to just send the entire horn out to get the screws extracted and replaced, would you know of anyone that would do that work? If not, what about just doing the entire job? I could handle most of the work myself, it is just the screw extraction that makes me afraid. ALL the screws are rusty, with the exception of a few that came right out.

EDIT: Contacted Saxquest for an approximate quote of removing all screws and rods and to replace springs, screws, and rods.

 

[click]

It is brass, not the silver plate model. No lacquer either, so nothing to destroy, lol. I just planned on polishing it (And of course replacing the cork and pads, etc) I work with typewriters and am familiar with small mechanical parts. Not afraid of diving into this.

If, say, I wanted to just send the entire horn out to get the screws extracted and replaced, would you know of anyone that would do that work? If not, what about just doing the entire job? I could handle most of the work myself, it is just the screw extraction that makes me afraid. ALL the screws are rusty, with the exception of a few that came right out.

EDIT: Contacted Saxquest for an approximate quote of removing all screws and rods and to replace springs, screws, and rods.

I do not know where you live, or how many techs you might have access to.

What I did when I got a sax needing work was to talk to the local high school band directors.

They were able to identify local techs for me to contact.

Then I shopped for a tech just like I would shop for a auto mechanic or a plumber.

Talk to them. Find some people who have used their services.

Show them the horn and ask them to estimate the cost for various services with explanations as to the benefits.

[I have several horns that have more money in them than they are worth, cash. But they are worth it for me because I am keeping and playing them until I die.]

 

[Grumps]

It is brass, not the silver plate model.

Can you see any engraving? Pictures of the horn would be good at this point. But assuming you're correct, and it's down to bare brass (and not a more rare gold plated horn), you might want to rethink what type of restoration you're in for. Perhaps you might want to consider a more decorative use of the horn, than a full mechanical rebuild which is going to have you spend a grand or more for a horn that will end up being worth only a couple hundred bucks.

Bottom line. These are just things, and folks will take advantage of emotional attachments. You're setting yourself up to eventually spend a small fortune for this proposed endeavor.

 

[Johnnya101]

Can you see any engraving? Pictures of the horn would be good at this point. But assuming you're correct, and it's down to bare brass (and not a more rare gold plated horn), you might want to rethink what type of restoration you're in for. Perhaps you might want to consider a more decorative use of the horn, than a full mechanical rebuild which is going to have you spend a grand or more for a horn that will end up being worth only a couple hundred bucks.

Bottom line. These are just things, and folks will take advantage of emotional attachments. You're setting yourself up to eventually spend a small fortune for this proposed endeavor.

Thanks for this response. I am weighing it out... I can spend $1000 on something that was part of the family but obviously not loved, and an alto, not a tenor, or get the same year but a tenor for less than the rebuild price.

It is not gold plated. It is brass. I am sure of it. It has some green corrosion and some of that red starting. Buescher True Tone #107699.

 

[nvilletele]

I put $850 into an overhaul of a Buescher Aristocrat Series I alto that I picked up for $300. It turned out great, so it was worth it.

I put $650 into an overhaul of a True Tone soprano that I had picked up for $900. The work was well done, but in the end it wasn’t worth it. The horn was just ok.

(Luckily, each one had come with surprisingly good old mouthpieces (old Link and Dukoff), so the economic hit was mitigated.)

I am happy to still have my Aristocrat but I am not missing my True Tone.

Those were my experiences. I didn’t have any sentimental attachment involved, but a thing is sometimes just a thing.

 

[Johnnya101]

Here are some photos from last year when I first got it. It is currently in the garage in a box soaking in PB Blaster, so went for these old photos. Looks the same.

 

[Grumps]

Yeah, that's one of the older ones without a front F or roller G#. In other words, highly undesirable horns even if functional. I do wonder though, if there is engraving on the bell of the horn that extends all the way to the band connecting the bell to the bottom bow.

Hate to say it though... as I do play a later model TT alto... but a lamp could be nice, eh? A saxophone lamp?

 

[JayeLID]

It is brass, not the silver plate model. No lacquer either, so nothing to destroy, lol. I just planned on polishing it (And of course replacing the cork and pads, etc) I work with typewriters and am familiar with small mechanical parts. Not afraid of diving into this.

If, say, I wanted to just send the entire horn out to get the screws extracted and replaced, would you know of anyone that would do that work? If not, what about just doing the entire job? I could handle most of the work myself, it is just the screw extraction that makes me afraid. ALL the screws are rusty, with the exception of a few that came right out.

EDIT: Contacted Saxquest for an approximate quote of removing all screws and rods and to replace springs, screws, and rods.

Not particularly a job which would be highly desirable to a tech....but no reason to send the horn somewhere to have this done; you can probably find someone locally (or quasi-locally) to do it, but again you may get a grumble or two...

As a fallback, really keep in mind all you gotta do is get ONE of two pivot screws off in most cases.
The other one can remain frozen and just clean it up with a wire brush. Perhaps someday, a bit of the blaster will have soaked in and done something.
Yes a compromise, and no it would NOT be moral to actually sell one to someone like that. But if kept in family as an heirloom, and occasionally played by you...that's another matter.

There are threads here on how to deal with this. Short of it - it is a multi-faceted attack plan. You can soak and turn and resoak and re-turn all day. Oftentimes that will not do it. You add a torch and an ice-cube (or freeze spray) quench to the process, sometimes the screws become far more agreeable...

I appreciate that a horn has family history value and this makes the whole sorta resale argument invalid a lot of the time.

Even given that, however...one of this era ? I would not suggest spending more than $500 on it. If it were the later TT's with roller G#, a different story, as IMHO it'd be worth spending $800 to get one of those up and running....

 

[lostcircuits]

Don't let Grumps discourage you, I mean, he has a point but:

From the pictures you show, it doesn't look too bad. One of the side keys (looks like the C-side key) is missing (unless you took it off). The long rod with the key(cup) that you have found may be a spare unless you see an open hole (can't really tell from the pictures) but in general, the horn doesn't have any major dents or dings so it is really just a matter of getting it apart, cleaning it and then putting it back together. That's how I started but mine was a New Aristocrat.

The 1920s TTs still have that old awkward octave mechanism but it isn't any worse than the later models.

So what it comes down to is how much labor of love you want to spend on this one. You can polish/buff most of it yourself without too much of a problem. The springs (at least the ones I can see) look rusty but should be ok, you can clean them with steel wool.

So essentially it is wax on, wax off for 2-3 months 1 or 2 hours at night 3 times a week (so that your finger cuts can heal in between). If you know somebody with a sand/glass blaster, you can save some time and turn it into a "project horn" but you should mask off any engraved area and hand polish it.

Total cost? Depends on how much tone-hole leveling and other "mechanical work" you have to do but it could be anywhere from $60 for a set of new pads (Ferree's tools B58) to any astronomical sum for diamond encrusting. If the key cups are not bent you probably don't have too much adjustments to do if you stick with the snap ons.

(FYI, I just did one like that and it was in much worse shape and it came out to less than $100 plus ~ 40 hours).

 

[Johnnya101]

Just wanted to contact Saxquest to get a rough idea on what a tech is going to charge. I am guessing $300-$500, but that is without prior knowledge of work to remove new rods. Making them is not too bad, but getting them out...

Thank you for the info regarding desirability.

At this point I will get some quotes, and if they are less than $400 or so, I will do it and do my best to make it play. If over, it is not worth it and I suppose I can sell for parts?

(PS. Any missing parts either had the rod break or I removed them. It is complete.)

 

[Grumps]

If over, it is not worth it and I suppose I can sell for parts?

You won't get more than $150 on ebay for it. And that might be a stretch.

 

[Johnnya101]

That's more than I was thinking! I was thinking $100 tops.

Don't worry, not one of those people that think everything is worth a million bucks

 

[turf3]

Right now, get some wine bottle corks, cut into chunks and stick one cork chunk onto the pointy end of each needle spring. Trust me, you'll be glad you did, later.

 

[PigSquealer]

+1 you don’t want to be petting the cactus

 

[Reet McVouty]

Hello,

I have inherited a family members True Tone alto. Now, from what I understand these are not worth too much, but it was part of the family since new, so obviously I would like to save it. However, it has not had a case since the 60s... and has been stored in a basement... So. Corrosion. It is currently dark brown. I have it ina box right now soaking in PB Blaster. The results look promising and everything is loosening up.

There is a long rod that was in the box originally, not sure what key since it was off and I usually play tenor soan alto is a bit different. Rod is about a foot long with a pad cup on it. It is held in place with two pivot screws. One pivot screw is intact. The other was sheared off so the pivot itself is rusted inside the rod, luckily it is not threaded in there.

What is my best course of action with this? There is nothing sticking out. Flat.

OK, this horn screams "lamp" to me. It's never going to be a good player unless you put way more money into it than what it is worth. I would polish it all up nice and shiny buy some lamp parts and make a great lamp out of it. It would be a great way to honor your family member by keeping it on display. https://www.bplampsupply.com/index.php

 

[JayeLID]

You won't get more than $150 on ebay for it. And that might be a stretch.

Yup it'd be a big stretch if it has frozen rods or screws... $100 if the description properly notes frozen rods and screws ? ...dunno....but then again someone may be looking for just a neck or something.....and actually, if the snaps are good, a set of original alto snaps is worth a good $50.....

 

[musekatcher]

If you are a player, have it rebuilt and enjoy the heck out of it. They were great horns in their day, they were played by professionals in their day, and they recorded great music in their day - and therefore they are good horns today. Folks that don't like older horns have stacks of reasons why they are inferior, but it ain't true. You won't make a profit on it - they made way too many, and most are ratty looking. I've got a 1924 that screams with a good, matched* mouthpiece - all the volume and edge of any modern horn, and good intonation.

 

[PigSquealer]

Right now, get some wine bottle corks, cut into chunks and stick one cork chunk onto the pointy end of each needle spring. Trust me, you'll be glad you did, later.

Here's the thread Johnnya101 needs to read.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?351878-Any-needle-spring-Horror-Stories

Also Johnnya101 a good primer on repair is Matt's videos.

You have a nice family item. Hang on your wall and enjoy it that way if you must. Picture of the front bell engraving would be nice to see.