[SaxPunter]

Below is a picture of 2 necks, my original Martin Comm II and a YTS-23

The 23 neck greatly inproves a tuning issue of sharp upper A,Bb,B and C. It doesnt fix it completely but it would mean that i play the horn more like I should.

I think the 23 octave pip is further back in terms of linear length, so do I:

- Mod the Martin neck
- Buy a 23 neck and retrofit it
- Look at others
- Stop complaining, Shut up and play my 36

 

[Pete Thomas]

Apart from the tuning, does the Yamaha neck sound or feel different? If so better or worse or just different?

If it sounds and feels the same or better, I would use that. If it doesn't sound or feel as good i would have the martin neck modified.

 

[harmonizerNJ]

I'm not smart at all about neck design, but I will ask this anyway: how do you know that it is the placement of the pip which is causing worse or better intonation on high A, Bb, B, and C? What if instead it is the overall length and/or bore of the two necks?

I am currently using a replacement neck on my Mark VI alto because it helps me play better. I left the original neck alone, and I am holding on to it, because someday someone else might be playing it, and for them the original neck might be fine, and they might want to use it (or at least be able to try it) with the original neck.

 

[Grumps]

As they're only sharp, get used to lipping the problem notes down. After a bit of time, it will become second nature.

 

[SaxPunter]

Apart from the tuning, does the Yamaha neck sound or feel different? If so better or worse or just different?

If it sounds and feels the same or better, I would use that. If it doesn't sound or feel as good i would have the martin neck modified.

I'm not sure it has the same tone colour as the Yamaha neck, but the sound is still Martin.

I'm not smart at all about neck design, but I will ask this anyway: how do you know that it is the placement of the pip which is causing worse or better intonation on high A, Bb, B, and C? What if instead it is the overall length and/or bore of the two necks?

I am currently using a replacement neck on my Mark VI alto because it helps me play better. I left the original neck alone, and I am holding on to it, because someday someone else might be playing it, and for them the original neck might be fine, and they might want to use it (or at least be able to try it) with the original neck.

I'm not sure about the pip, I just read some stuff before somewhere about moving pips, it might well be the physical characteristics as you say. Keeping the original neck (with matching serial) as is might be a good idea for resale, but if I never play it... well it's kinda not worth having around.

As they're only sharp, get used to lipping the problem notes down. After a bit of time, it will become second nature.

Yep I spent a long while doing this before giving it up and buying my 36, which is stellar in comparision. I just couldn't reliably pull 25 cents down on those 3 notes... it was like a moving target. My immaturity as a player didnt help. I also think it was hindering my progress as a player. Having an option of another neck to make the problem smaller means I'd play and maybe gig it more, like taking your old 67 mustang out for a burn just because you can.

 

[jlima]

If the 36 is "stellar", as you say, why bother with anything else?

 

[SaxPunter]

If the 36 is "stellar", as you say, why bother with anything else?

Because:

like taking your old 67 mustang out for a burn just because you can.

 

[bruce bailey]

I have had this issue with some older horns including Martins. Take the key off of the neck, get a small piece of plastic tubing (spray can tube, hollow Q-tip shaft, etc.), cut about 2 inches of tubing, smooth one end, insert it into the pip enough to keep it firm inside and not extending past the pip tube where it goes into the bore. Using a razor blade, cut the tube flush with the outside of the pip and press the tube slightly down inside the pip so the pad doesn't touch it. Reinstall the key. This makes the inside of the pip smaller and will tend to make notes from A2 and up flatter. If the tubing is too small inside, the octave may jump down. Experiment. Another way I do this is to pack a bit of plastic wood filler (elmer's) into the pip making the inside about half size. If you screw up, it can just be knocked out with a small screwdriver. All of these things can be reversed easily.
There is a "how to" from MusicMedic or one of the repair techs on a way to do a similar feat with nylon mesh.
Try it as you can fix the sharpness, not alter the horn irreversibly and use the Martin neck.

 

[SaxPunter]

I have had this issue with some older horns including Martins. Take the key off of the neck, get a small piece of plastic tubing (spray can tube, hollow Q-tip shaft, etc.), cut about 2 inches of tubing, smooth one end, insert it into the pip enough to keep it firm inside and not extending past the pip tube where it goes into the bore. Using a razor blade, cut the tube flush with the outside of the pip and press the tube slightly down inside the pip so the pad doesn't touch it. Reinstall the key. This makes the inside of the pip smaller and will tend to make notes from A2 and up flatter. If the tubing is too small inside, the octave may jump down. Experiment. Another way I do this is to pack a bit of plastic wood filler (elmer's) into the pip making the inside about half size. If you screw up, it can just be knocked out with a small screwdriver. All of these things can be reversed easily.
There is a "how to" from MusicMedic or one of the repair techs on a way to do a similar feat with nylon mesh.
Try it as you can fix the sharpness, not alter the horn irreversibly and use the Martin neck.

Hi Bruce, just gave this a try and no change unfortunately

Cheers

 

[SaxPunter]

I bought this neck and its in getting a new tenon and modded octave key so I can keep the existing neck as is. It'll be a FrankenYamMartin but if it works only I'll know. The necks been delaquerd so it's a good visual match, and it has a nickel plated octave key. I'll report back on the result.

 

[SaxPunter]

Ok got the horn back today with a new tenon on the 23 neck fits very nicely and plays in tune up to palm d where it goes a bit flat to very flat on the e and f

Oh well, at least I have a horn I can use a bit more now.

 

[soybean]

Sometimes you have to try many necks but if you find the right one, the intonation can definitely be improved on some horns. You can also try installing crescents. They work very well on sharp palm keys. Music Medic has a good explanation of how to do this on their website. They are also starting a series of articles on how to improve the intonation in SAxophone Journal magazine. The first article in the series started in the current issue.

 

[milandro]

and here is the article

http://www.musicmedic.com/info/articles/num_24.html

 

[SaxPunter]

Thanks guys, I'm going to buy some cork and glue

 

[Grumps]

Thanks guys, I'm going to buy some cork and glue

As you're flat up top, don't waste your time. Crescents won't work. Instead, make sure your palm keys are open to the point where they no longer flatten the note. If they're already open to this point you might have to expand the neck a bit at the cork end... but this of course could throw other things off.

 

[milandro]

..........or you can get yourself a horn which doesn't give you any of these headaches