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a customer is looking for a idea of a different neck for a bundy tenor for different tone.
i have no idea,so a recommendation would be good please.(yes,i would get a different saxophone,but its not for me).
thank you.
 

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Honestly, it sounds like a big waste of time to me.

I mean, the Bundy saxophones are OK for what they are, but spending any money other than what's required to keep it in good condition is pretty much the same thing as taking a $1500 clapped-out Honda Civic four door sedan and putting a $5000 suspension kit, $1000 loud fartcan exhaust system, $10,000 stereo system, and $19.99 worth of stickers, and thinking you've really got something.

If you are playing a Bundy tenor and want to experiment with different tonal qualities, experimentation with mouthpieces and reeds will do a hundred times more than fiddling with necks - and if you spend a pantload of money on a really high quality mouthpiece, it will be a high quality mouthpiece whatever horn you play through the years. If you spend a bunch of money and time on different necks for a Bundy tenor, you will have nothing more than a Bundy tenor with a different neck.

And yes, I know Wayne Shorter recorded with a Bundy tenor, etc., etc., etc.
 

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Welllllll....a modern chinese cheapie neck would brighten up the tone and cut of something like an old Bundy, make it reedier and edgier....but you would have to find one which was a tenon fit and also having a natural pitch like that of the original neck.

But I have had success using eFlay $60 necks on vintage American horns, intonationally speaking.
 

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I couldn't agree more with turf3. Huge waste of time and money. Change the mouthpiece (or your playing) to change your sound.

On the other hand, people love to spend money on useless things, and the placebo effect can go a long way.
 

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not really a recommendation though?
OK, if you want me to type something with the right vocabulary word, here's what I would tell the person asking you.

"I would recommend that you not waste time, energy, and money changing out necks on a Bundy tenor as it won't make even a hundredth part of the difference you can get by mouthpiece or reed changes or by practicing the things you are weak on - and at the end of the day you'll still have a Bundy tenor. You can put lipstick on a pig, but the pig remains a pig."
 

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Bundy's aren't really pigs, tho. It is more a matter of a quasi-serious replacement neck likely costing as much as the market value of the horn....
 

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Bundy's aren't really pigs, tho. It is more a matter of a quasi-serious replacement neck likely costing as much as the market value of the horn....
Well, "pig" is an overstatement. Nevertheless, they are decontented student horns (except for those real old "Bundy Special" horns - which I'm willing to bet you a fine German beer is NOT what the inquiry is about - ), with mediocre build quality and keywork refinement. You can make them play pretty well for what they are, but given the essential dubiosity of the whole neck-search-in-quest-of-some-undefinable-subtle-difference-only-audible-to-0.00001%-of-humans thing, applying it to a Bundy is a real exercise in the elephant straining every fiber for days only to bring forth at the end a mouse.
 

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Well, "pig" is an overstatement. Nevertheless, they are decontented student horns (except for those real old "Bundy Special" horns - which I'm willing to bet you a fine German beer is NOT what the inquiry is about - ), with mediocre build quality and keywork refinement. You can make them play pretty well for what they are, but given the essential dubiosity of the whole neck-search-in-quest-of-some-undefinable-subtle-difference-only-audible-to-0.00001%-of-humans thing, applying it to a Bundy is a real exercise in the elephant straining every fiber for days only to bring forth at the end a mouse.
I dunno, Wayne shorter really dug his Bundy Aristocrat stencil. I had one of these, and am still kicking myself for giving it away. Great playing tenor that's also extremely lightweight and beautifully engraved.
 

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I dunno, Wayne shorter really dug his Bundy Aristocrat stencil. I had one of these, and am still kicking myself for giving it away. Great playing tenor that's also extremely lightweight and beautifully engraved.
Well, I admit that we don't know for sure which of the various horns marked "Bundy" we are talking about, but I am willing to bet you a beer that it's a crummy student Bundy (either I or II) which make up 99% of the Bundy saxes out there, and not a stencilled Buescher Aristocrat from the days before Buescher was converted to a student sax.

Even if we are talking about one of the rare high quality "Bundy Special" saxes, it's still a waste of time and money to go chasing necks, in my opinion. In that case, rather than tarting-up a clapped-out $1500 Honda Civic, it would be more like tarting-up a 20 year old Toyota Camry in good clean used condition. Sorry, but putting a fartcan muffler and stickers all over your 20 year old Camry won't make it into a race car. It's a good functional family sedan, just leave it alone.
 

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Well, I admit that we don't know for sure which of the various horns marked "Bundy" we are talking about, but I am willing to bet you a beer that it's a crummy student Bundy (either I or II) which make up 99% of the Bundy saxes out there, and not a stencilled Buescher Aristocrat from the days before Buescher was converted to a student sax.

Even if we are talking about one of the rare high quality "Bundy Special" saxes, it's still a waste of time and money to go chasing necks, in my opinion. In that case, rather than tarting-up a clapped-out $1500 Honda Civic, it would be more like tarting-up a 20 year old Toyota Camry in good clean used condition. Sorry, but putting a fartcan muffler and stickers all over your 20 year old Camry won't make it into a race car. It's a good functional family sedan, just leave it alone.
I was referring to the tenor version of this horn.

http://www.doctorsax.biz/2012/Bundy_Alto_20A_48266

The first Bundy's were Conn New Wonder stencils. The student Bundy's you're referring to were allegedly based off of the Buescher True-Tone neck and body with wildly different keywork. That's according to an old Ralph Morgan quote I stumbled across years ago. For their part, I feel that both of the Bundy student horns play very well when they're in good condition. They are a bit darker than what I care for, and I'm not particularly a fan of the palm keys of the Bundy II, but I wouldn't have an issue gigging on one in a pinch. So going back to the original inquiry of this thread, a late series True Tone neck probably wouldn't be a bad place to start.
 

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Is the guy playing a good mouthpiece? It will have far more tonal impact than a neck...so will reeds.

Also we really dont have much info here.

He wants a different tone....can he or someone please describe what difference he is after?

A lot of guys want a different tone but that alone is like going it a bar and saying, "Can I have something to drink?"

Saying he wants a new neck without a clearly defined problem is just playing roulette with a credit card.
 

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absolutely! And the most important thing is that in the end tone comes from your brain, through your ears, way more than it comes out from anything.

The illusion that “ if I change this that or the other I am going to play better or even simply “ differently” “ is being cultivated and nurtured by many shop keepers, but the fact that so many go through cycles of continuous buying to get what they could get , maybe get, through work and application.

When Gloger sold me his neck he told me that I should expect the neck to play the same or perhaps to project more, but not to expect any radical changes.

But Gloger at that time was making exact copies.

Chances are that buying a neck to “ improve the sound” on the hopscotch will result in an improvement are slim but it is a possibility.

Once I sold a Buescher stencil to Jthole , he was aware that the neck was not original although I initially thought it was a Buescher too, turned out to be a Vito neck. When he later on got hold of a Buescher neck he preferred the Vito to the Buescher although there is no way to compare to the neck that wasn’t there.


Your customer is taking the long road, and in all probability he will discover that he will end up there where he started after trying lots of stuff and he would have been better served by trying and trying again rather than buying and buying again.

In the north of Italy they call this to crush water with a pestle and mortar. You start with water, apply lot of work and end up with... water.
 

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In the old 'music store' days, the guys would have fun swapping Selmer Paris necks onto lesser horns and witnessing the marked improvements they made. I'd say from my own experience a different neck could potentially make a world of difference. For example, I bought a used Selmer USA tenor that didn't 'have it' with the original neck but was improved and made usable professionally with a Selmer Paris MK VI replacement neck. It doesn't have to be a very expensive neck either - the current 80 SA III tenor neck is in the MK VI pattern and is not terribly expensive in the standard lacquer finish. I'm using a III neck on my MK VI now, a Sterling silver one - best MK VI neck I've tried. I bought one of those super cheap Chinese necks and tried it on my USA - it actually played pretty well. These necks are in what I would term a modified MK 7/80SA profile or simply a higher-arch than what would have come on the Bundy - at the price its worth a try. They sell these in two tenon diameters so you'll have to determine that.
The only other factor to me would be to check the fit of the current neck on the sax as well as general condition, interior cleanliness and anything else that might affect its playing/tone. The whole horn should be in good shape before trying different necks.

As a rule, I don't agree with the concept that a tech should be adamant with a customer about something he wants to do. The tech can make his thoughts on it known in a non-confrontational manner or even recuse himself from having anything to do with the particular thing but being forceful and rude about it shouldn't be in the play book. And BTW, everyone should remember that 'its not the arrow, its the archer'. This definitely applies to musical instruments - its the player, not the horn. If this customer likes that Bundy and just wants to see if a neck will make a difference, just help him with it after you lay out the probability that it may be a fruitless exercise. Bottom line, a neck bought can always be sold if it doesn't work.
 

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yes, that’s what happens now with lots of them.

Another merry go round, after the mouthpieces.
 
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