[Humbardi]

Hi... I was viewing a youtube video from Storer Music about neck pulldown and he says that measuring the distance to the tip of the neck you can check if the neck has been pulldown....
What should be this value for a Selmer Mark VII neck ?
thanks in advance

 

[Humbardi]

Accordying to these images the marks in the neck ( where the arrows are pointing ) indicate that the neck has been “ pull down” or “pull up“..
I measured the height and it has 5.35 mm
what should be the height for Selmer Mark VII ?

 

[motteatoj]

I have not fully understood neck pull down, and when it is a problem and when it isn’t.
Is lacquer wear like that always indicative?
Is a pulled down neck ok if it still seals? If not/so, when is it/isn’t it, meaning is there limits within reason that are ok anyway?

 

[saxyjare01]

A neck pulldown can greatly impact your intonation, center, clarity etc.

Those marks are usually a sign of a pulldown, but not always. You will also find them when the neck has been repaired or "repaired."

In my experience, the later VI and early VII necks were made in a hurry and they weren't really shaping them correctly. I've had some mint VI altos and tenors that needed the angle to be changed in order for them to work right.

You'd be surprised how much .005 inch can mess with a horn.

One of the main problems: When repair techs don't do a great job, you'll have protrusions on the side. That might make parts of the horn seem tubby or hard to control because there is too much volume in that part of the neck.

A neck can make or break a saxophone. Other than all that goes into making a saxophone body and keys great, the neck is the most important part of a saxophone.

Contact Ken Beason, Aaron Barnard, Dell Knickerbocker, Randy Jones and have a conversation about necks.

 

[B Flat]

And then there are times when a pull down has no adverse effect.
Years ago I had three Zephyr tenors.
Two with perfect necks and one that was literally trashed in that it was pulled down that far that it had splits of two or more inches on both sides.
I managed to pull it back up close to the correct angle and soldered up the splits (in true plumbers soldering fashion).
It was the ugliest neck I’ve ever seen, but it played as well as or better than the two others.
Perhaps the pull down was a blessing in disguise?.

 

[B Flat]

Also you may be able to check if it’s been pulled down by poking your finger inside the tenon and feeling around the suspect area.
Generally you can feel if it has a slight crease.

 

[turf3]

I know that when my alto neck was damaged, Beason straightened it out. He said that he brought it up to about the usual position, and it played OK, but not great, so he brought it up a bit more and said it was a lot better. I think the differences were small.

I guess that small bit of ovality can have an effect. Or not.

The double curve of a tenor neck has got to be more troublesome to restore, or to execute correctly in the first place.

In bending any tube there is always a certain degree of ovaling that occurs, no matter what the process, so that's another aspect to consider.

Honestly some of the neck stuff is hard to understand. I know that the 6M, one of the best alto saxophones ever made, frankly seems like it ought not to work at all, what with the distortions to the bore, right near the mouthpiece where everything is supposedly the most sensitive; and then there's basically no way that sliding sleeve is always leak tight either. Yet the thing plays wtih a great sound and almost perfect intonation.

 

[StuartSax]

A neck pulldown can greatly impact your intonation, center, clarity etc

With due respect, not much of that is true.

I have a seriously pulled down neck on my 105 tenor - something I conjecture was done purposely. When play testing with various players and horns, it consistently rates among the best.

 

[pitsen3]

That kind of wear can be from how it is stored in the Case. My MK VI has those marks from rattling around in the slot provided in the Selmer case it came in for 49 years. I can guarantee there is no pull down on my neck.

 

[Dr G]

That kind of wear can be from how it is stored in the Case.

Good call. A complete forensic analysis would include looking at the other wear to see whether it is consistent with that theory. Consider also whether one can feel any indication of bumps in the surface. Look to see whether the lacquer and solder of the brace looks like it was removed.

Beyond all that, though... How does it play? Is the horn leak-free (including the neck tenon)? Does the mouthpiece fit well on the cork, or is that contributing to playing issues? If the response is inconsistent, look for leaks and timing issues.

Bottom line: There are a lot of factors regarding a horn’s response and intonation. If there is/was pull down, it doesn’t look so bad from here.

 

[whaler]

Accordying to these images the marks in the neck ( where the arrows are pointing ) indicate that the neck has been “ pull down” or “pull up“..
I measured the height and it has 5.35 mm
what should be the height for Selmer Mark VII ?

Classic pull-down tell there. You see it on a lot of vintage Selmers.
The only better tell is when it has patches on the sides where you have it marked.

 

[saxoclese]

In a thread on acoustics several years ago acoustic scientist Antoine Lefevbre who works with Gary Scavone at McGill University was asked about the effects of "pull down" which causes "ovaling" in the neck of a saxophone. His response was that the shape of the tube had little effect, but that the decrease in volume inside the neck would raise the pitch in the first register causing the player to pull the mouthpiece out which would lower the pitch in the second register---especially the palm key notes. His full comments can be found here:

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...he-soundwave&p=1671185&viewfull=1#post1671185