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Neck extensions

2617 Views 19 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  MojoBari, 
Gene
Does anyone play a 62 10m and have tuneing problems .I'm thinking about an extension or a really expensive Gloger neck do they help the tuneing issue and the mpc issue of being pulled out all the way on the neck.
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S
that won't help, the sax was made like that with that neck so it won't be down to the neck.
if it's not intonation then you just need to either get the neck recorked or get a longer shank mouthpiece, or jsut a new mouthpiece in general.
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milandro
Gene said:
Does anyone play a 62 10m and have tuneing problems .I'm thinking about an extension or a really expensive Gloger neck do they help the tuneing issue and the mpc issue of being pulled out all the way on the neck.
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1962 looks pretty late for intonation issues of that type.
I've been researching this problem for my 1916 Conn Baritone Stencil Bruno-N.Y.

The problem seems to be that the mouthpiece design changed radically in time and the very large chambered pickle barrel mouthpieces of that by-gone era aren't produced anymore while the modern ones tend to produce a sharp intonation, therefore there seems to be a couple of ways to correct this. Searching the market for a mouthpiece with a longer shank (allowing this to be positioned really much more at the back thatn what you other wise would or could ) than usual (and bigger chamber) or extending the mouthpiece with some sort of tubing. Or getting to terms with an old mouthpiece, whch almost certainly would have to be refaced and opened to a more usual, modern size.

But your horn is 1962. By that time mouthpieces were very similar to modern pieces in design and chamber sizes.

Could you have someone check the heigth of your pads from the vents? A lot of the intonation problems come from there and many have solved the problems this way. Good Luck!

By the way Gloger says that his necks won't do anything for this kind of problem,I asked, Call Him!
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Grumpie
milandro said:
1962 looks pretty late for intonation issues of that type.

But your horn is 1962. By that time mouthpieces were very similar to modern pieces in design and chamber sizes.
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But still it's from the basic 10M design and this is a common known 'problem' with the 10M's together with the low D warble at pp.
I have '50 s 10M and my Morgan, my Link and lebayle all sit about halfway the cork.
It is not an intonation problem but more a tuning issue (or problem to others). Finding a matching mpc could be a solution, extending the neck is another possibility if it really is at the end of the neck. Personally I'm fine with halfway the cork.
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Grumps
I know from my 10M that the problem is worse in the summer as well. I went the thick cork route. On a summer gig, my high baffled RPC sits right on the end of the neck; less than half an inch on the cork. My rollover model goes about a quarter of an inch further.
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S
I also have same problem with my 47' 10M , out of my 30 something mpcs, the only one that tames the lady down to get to be in tune is my old Jody metal 7* w/o spoiler which sits on the cork, I would say, normally.:D when others could get swallowed anytime.:tongue8: :
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milandro
why do you think that a horn (a good professional horn ) made for professionals should have such problems? Did it have the same problems at the time it was built ? What, if anything, other than mouthpieces design having changed, could justify this freak behavior of a horn which was made and meant to play in tune? One would imagine that they either would have founnd a way to cure the intonation itches or that Conn or Buescher would have never stayed the saxophone legends that they were. I wonder.....
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Spooner
Neck extension?
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milandro
does she sing in tune now?
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B
I see her low D is warbling. A different approach to the mouthpiece hanging on the edge is to find the mouthpiece you want to use, cut the shank off of an old broken mouthpiece (same I.D.) and epoxy it to the shank of the one you want to use. This will stabilize the wobble but won't improve the intonation.
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N
Gene I have 1946 10M I use an Otto Link Super tone master NY and a Otto Link hard rubber Tone Edge. Both tune well and they sit about half way on the cork. Try having your neck re-corked and try one of the above or another large chamber mouthpiece.
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Grumpie
If the amount of cork shown can be taken as an indication then the ´out on the cork´ position is something that goes way back with these ladies.
Still.........just listen.


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Gene
Pad Height

I'm sure it'a an issue with the tuning,I was experimenting and when I play G2 and slowly drop the lower three pads it comes in tune just how far to drop the and the others I wouldn't know.Anyhow to low a pad and the notes become quit dull and stuffy . I 'll try positioning my mpc 1/2- 3/4 inch in or maybe more and test with a tuner.The pad height also slows me down , to far a distance to move the fingers, anyone know how high they should be?
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Grumpie
Gene, check this thread, page 2 and post #25 by Les.
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=1144&page=2&highlight=keys
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milandro
well, I've read that the actual heigth of the pads was much smaller in the past, in other words they were set for quick, short action. This tended to reduce volume ( and had definate influence on intonation). Nowadays I gather that the general trend isto keep them as high as it is possible (if I saying something stupid please forgive me , I am no technician but I seem to remeber reading these things, possibly on this forum too) hence improving volume .
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Bootman
Your problem isn't the neck but more likely to be a combination of incorrect pad heights, a mpc that doesn't have large enough chamber volume and probably too soft a reed. Try an old Link and see whether the intonation improves. Try a slightly harder reed and get your sax to a good tech and have them regulate the key heights and check for leaks. You may also need a thicker neck cork!
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Grumps
milandro said:
why do you think that a horn (a good professional horn ) made for professionals should have such problems? Did it have the same problems at the time it was built ?
Click to expand...
The standard mouthpiece at the time was a relatively closed tipped (5), large chambered piece. Those will push in fine on the neck. Today, a 7 tip is more standard and the chambers on many modern pieces are smaller. Get up to the 8, 9 and 10 range, add a baffle and squeeze the chamber and you've got problems. Thing is, there are lots of folks who seek out those extreme pieces for rock and roll... but also want that great 10M thunder for same. That's why these horns aren't valued that highly. They have quirks. Known quirks. But if you adapt and/or compromise, you can make 'em roar.
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rs1sensen
10Ms, as Grumps said, are very quirky. I tried 30 or so mpc's when I first bought my horn, and I got about 5 of them to play in tune on most notes. I went with the one I liked the best. As mentioned above, it's got a nice big chamber. Most of the mouthpieces I tried were at least slightly vintage, so I think my sucessrate might be better than others who try modern pieces on their horns.

I think a neck extension would be overkill, when with a little experimentation, you can find great and in tune mouthpieces for your 10M w/o a huge expense!
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S
i got my neck extended as i only play high baffell mpcs mostly. works great. i can use any mpc i like now.
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MojoBari
I play a 1966 10M. I went through a period where I thought the neck was short. But I now think I was biting up that palm keys in pitch. I use the same sax to play test all types of mouthpieces. Most go 1/2 way on the cork or more when tuned.

Some MP designs have longer-then-average shanks. A Runyon Quantum is one.
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