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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2008
Venus alto & tenor
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why isn't there a better material or mechanism to adjust or adapt for different mouthpiece diameter openings?
Why are we using plumbers tape for crying out loud?
Somebody do something.
 

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If you have Broadband - take a look at this film

http://www.saxshop.nl/keilwerth.wmv

Don't if you are in a hurry!! It is quite interesting anyway, showing how a saxophone is made.

The point that is relevant is at about 14 mins 50secs into the clip - which shows them throwing on a preformed cork sleeve onto a pre-glued crook.

Why is that not commercially available for quick repairs? (OK it doesn't take that long for someone who knows what they are doing to do it from sheet)

But the crook is conical so downward pressure will only secure its position - could there not be an interchangable version that does not have to be glued?

Or another material with some elasticity - ?neoprene.
 

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I have replaced corks myself and also had them done professionally.

When done correctly they will last for years and accomodate various
mpc's easily if the proper cork has been used.
 

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I've seen pictures of the Scimonetti corkless sax neck that uses a few o-rings instead of cork (with adjustable positions). I also found a thread in the archives here at SOTW about it:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=37495


I found that they have a write-up about it on their Ebay store too (although the pictures look to have broken links):

http://stores.ebay.com/Scimonetti-Band-and-Orchestra-Inc/Scimonetti-Corkless-Sax-Neck.html#top

It looks like a pretty cool idea to me, interesting enough to try anyway. I would imagine that you could get some different thickness o-rings to do quick changes between mouthpieces.
 

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kork isn't that expensive, does actually a good job and most important, it's easy to work with.

But I have also a wish for a good replace for the korks.

It isn't the neck kork which makes me fuzzy, but all those tiny little korks in the mechanica. The got lost or get pressed or soaking them up again when get wet. Same with the felt. They are the reasons why you have to readjust a new horn after half a year, and those tiny little things make often a lot of stress.
Futhermore it's not so easy to adjust all the mechanic couplings or the keyhighs.
I hate the right hand system of selmer. Yamaha has some very good screws there but opposite the screws there is also kork.

On my Cannonball there are also this screws but not so clever like the Yamahs (they have a flat head on the end) the kork ist allready damaged and I allready had to readjust it.

I want something synthetic which lasts longer and easy to work with (sandpaper, cutting, glue on) and I want more Screws (of course with a litte rubber-o-ring inlay)


The same reason I don't like the leatherpads. They are not constant over the time and need to be always on the same place for the perfect fitting.

There are some other solutins. Who remembers the TopTone pads?

Here is an other solution from codera which is very intersting

http://www.saxophon.com/saxcom/zubehoer/vintedge.htm
 

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If you have Broadband - take a look at this film

http://www.saxshop.nl/keilwerth.wmv

Don't if you are in a hurry!! It is quite interesting anyway, showing how a saxophone is made.

The point that is relevant is at about 14 mins 50secs into the clip - which shows them throwing on a preformed cork sleeve onto a pre-glued crook.

Why is that not commercially available for quick repairs? (OK it doesn't take that long for someone who knows what they are doing to do it from sheet)

But the crook is conical so downward pressure will only secure its position - could there not be an interchangable version that does not have to be glued?

Or another material with some elasticity - ?neoprene.
Here's how. I could build a shed in the time it takes to do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScTUhwTk-_w


If ever either of mine need replacing if I can't be assed to find some cork I'll use ptfe tape or a strip of butyl rubber as it doesn't deteriorate, wound on and fixed at the socket end with a small strip of insulating tape. I can already hear some hands being thrown up.

It's just simple mechanics. It just needs to be in the right position be easy to adjust and allow the mouthpiece to be taken off or replaced and have an airtight seal.

It ain't rocket salad.


Digressing, there's a YouTube video of Johnny Dankworth somewhere where he's got duct tape wrapped round the neck of his alto. I can only guess the piano was so flat he needed to get so much more length on the neck of his alto, the tape was there to stop his mouthpiece slipping off.
 

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kork isn't that expensive, does actually a good job and most important, it's easy to work with.

But I have also a wish for a good replace for the korks.

It isn't the neck kork which makes me fuzzy, but all those tiny little korks in the mechanica. The got lost or get pressed or soaking them up again when get wet. Same with the felt. They are the reasons why you have to readjust a new horn after half a year, and those tiny little things make often a lot of stress.
Futhermore it's not so easy to adjust all the mechanic couplings or the keyhighs.
I hate the right hand system of selmer. Yamaha has some very good screws there but opposite the screws there is also kork.

On my Cannonball there are also this screws but not so clever like the Yamahs (they have a flat head on the end) the kork ist allready damaged and I allready had to readjust it.

I want something synthetic which lasts longer and easy to work with (sandpaper, cutting, glue on) and I want more Screws (of course with a litte rubber-o-ring inlay)


The same reason I don't like the leatherpads. They are not constant over the time and need to be always on the same place for the perfect fitting.

There are some other solutins. Who remembers the TopTone pads?

Here is an other solution from codera which is very intersting

http://www.saxophon.com/saxcom/zubehoer/vintedge.htm
I've posted this elsewhere. On the three palm keys of my tenor, I've replaced the slivers of cork which have fallen off over time with tiny bits of butyl rubber cut from some left over twenty-year-old butyl pool-liner.
Also on one other key where I made it double thickness, they work fine, they don't cause the keys to "bounce." As I said in my original post, it wouldn't be suitable for places where it might need thicker corks.

Cork quality where I've been able to find it in craft shops is of poor quality and far from suitable. I've not tried to cut up wine corks, I don't know if they might be ok if nothing else is available.
 

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I've posted this elsewhere. On the three palm keys of my tenor, I've replaced the slivers of cork which have fallen off over time with tiny bits of butyl rubber cut from some left over twenty-year-old butyl pool-liner.
Also on one other key where I made it double thickness, they work fine, they don't cause the keys to "bounce." As I said in my original post, it wouldn't be suitable for places where it might need thicker corks.

Cork quality where I've been able to find it in craft shops is of poor quality and far from suitable. I've not tried to cut up wine corks, I don't know if they might be ok if nothing else is available.
Sounds interesting
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
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One solution is to adopt a standard mouthpiece inside diameter for each size of saxophone. Existing mouthpieces could be adapted to the new norm for those who want that convenience. (Slight ream out, or glue in a bushing). Techs could fit corks to the "standard" mouthpiece size if the customer requests.

Mouthpiece makers might be glad to have a spec for the diameter of the end bore.

The only problem is deciding what the actual value will be. If manufacturers are involved in the process, each will try to get the standard set to the size they are already using.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2008
Venus alto & tenor
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How about a rubber type bushing that fits inside the mouthpiece? It could fit similar to the way an end cap does with a lip on the end. They could be of different thicknesses. No cork on crook. Now we need a manufacturer. Perhaps Trojan?
 

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I think that cork works well.
If you have a material that adapts to all mouthpieces, it will not keep the mouthpiece firmly placed on the neck. It will be too flexible or too slick.

The problem is that my Dukoff D8 has a skinny bore, and the Link NY Tone Edge has a larger bore. If I size the cork for the Link, the Dukoff will crush it down.
 

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Musicmedic.com sells pre-cut, beveled and ready-to-glue neck corks. A little pricey at $6.00, but they are easy to slap on in a pinch. I keep one in my kit.
 

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The best solution I have heard is to fit the neck cork to the smaller of the mouthpiece shanks and then paint the inside of the larger shank with successive layers of clear nail polish until it matches the smaller piece. Both pieces will then fit the cork the same, and the modification can easily be undone with nail polish remover. I think Mojo bari was the one who first posted this solution.


John
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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"Cork quality where I've been able to find it in craft shops is of poor quality and far from suitable.... "

And that's why technicians never buy their cork from a craftshop. Just like you don't buy your car grease from the supermarket's margarine shelf!

".. I've not tried to cut up wine corks, I don't know if they might be ok if nothing else is available..."

Once again, typically rather poor underneath the often tarted-up exterior surface. But fine for tiny bits, avoiding the multitude of big blemishes. But it's much easier to work from the standard thickness sheets that we use.
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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One solution is to adopt a standard mouthpiece inside diameter for each size of saxophone. Existing mouthpieces could be adapted to the new norm for those who want that convenience. ....
It's interesting how pretty well every clarinet maker has managed to conform to a standard sized socket for the mouthpiece, and standard mouthpiece tenons to suit.

Whatever went wrong with the sax mouthpiece makers?
 

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It's interesting how pretty well every clarinet maker has managed to conform to a standard sized socket for the mouthpiece, and standard mouthpiece tenons to suit.

Whatever went wrong with the sax mouthpiece makers?
maybe because taper and length of the necks are not standardized in saxophones and because chambers and mouthpiece designs vary so greatly that it would be impossible to have a standard size?
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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Different neck diameters are still within what can be taken up to a standard by how much cork is put on. (after all, it is pretty rare for a mouthpiece socket to be as small in diameter as the metal of a neck!)

And I can't see how the diameter of the mouthpiece socket needs to have much to do with the shape of the rest of the mouthpiece cavity.
 

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I've been putting the cork end of my neck in boiling water every time I need it larger. It works great and I've bben doing it about once every two weeks or so for the last couple years. The cork gets flattened down by a piece with a smaller bore and when I go to put one on with a bigger bore it's too loose. I put it in the boiling water(not the whole cork but up to the line where it is flattened) and it expands out. I dry it off, put cork grease on it and put the other mouthpiece on it. It has worked great so far.
 
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