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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok man, I'm really not trying to pick a fight here but your ignorance and judgment is a little bewildering - Eric Harland, Aaron Parks, Matt Penman, Matt Garrison and Alex Sipiagin are all on literally hundreds of records each, they're so ubiquitous in modern jazz recorded in the last 20 years that it's pretty much impossible not to have heard them. Again, no judgement if you don't like their records or their aesthetic but please show some respect for their artistry and commitment. Comparing their musical voices to flatulence is both degrading and embarrassing.
Let's address my "ignorance and judgement,", and how these instrument owners are "so ubiquitous in modern jazz recorded in the last 20 years." I have never heard of any of them, and I spent 40 years in the music business working with national acts at the highest level. Buddy Rich, all the Motown acts, Tony Bennett, Henry Mancini, are just a few of them. I hired some of the greatest jazz players in the country. Music regardless of genre is either good or bad, and Duke Ellington agreed with that opinion. It is true today just as it was true going back many generations. I joined a new Buddy Rich Orchestra in NYC in 1976. I was the only guy from outside of NYC, and everyone in there was a name musician who I had records of, or who were legends in the business. The band was amazing, and it had killer players. I know what good music and good musicians sound like, and this ain't it.
 

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Styles - You drop everyone‘s name but your own. Should we know you?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dr. G, whatever names I have dropped are just a small fraction of the great musicians I got to work with, or hire. I was fortunate, but I worked hard, and it paid off. I have no idea of who you know. I am just a musician who did well, but I worked my tail off in the music business to accomplish whatever I did.
 

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All, I think we should probably not try to "dox" someone who isn't volunteering their identity, no matter how much we might want to use that call into question their authority, expertise, etc. It's also probably not very productive to joust with someone who's so dismissive of others' opinions.

I'm fine with assuming Styles is on the level about his level of experience. From the names he mentions, it's clear he subscribes to a musical aesthetic that is not likely to ever look favorably on a player like Strigalev. That said, I think anyone should be able to hear the vast difference between Strigalev's demonstrative "honking" in his keywork video or the "low notes" video, and his competent, assured playing in real performances or studio recordings.

I, for one, bought one of Strigalev's bandcamp recordings as a result of this thread. I ****ing love it.
 

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To be fair, many of us can reel off lists of big names (whether jazz, pop, R&B, classical or whatever) we've worked with and yet still appreciate and look favorably on such a player. ie you can play in one style and apprciate an entire gamut (or is it a smorgasbod) of other genres.
Yeah, the point I was trying to make was that Styles seemed to be rattling off names not only to establish cred, but to indicate what music is good.
 

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I think I just got an idea for a future video!! "How to Name Drop like a PRO"
Pros don't name drop.

Elton told me that while I was out for a drink with him and Ariana
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Nobody is disputing that at all. There may be a bit of a misundestanding here.

I was merely discussing your post in which you seemed to be going to great lengths to point out that you don't call yourself an artist, which just seemed a bit odd because nobody ever said you did, and I didn't quite understand refuting something that appeared not to have happened.
Pete, you are correct, I don't call myself an artist, just a musician. What I seem to have failed to get across was all the really great musicians I worked with over the years, the name singers or groups and the musicians who backed them up never referred to themselves as artists. Not even once. The only people in my life who referred to themselves as artists or talked about "their art" were musicians who spent way too many years in college, had no skills to actually earn a living, and hid behind the term "artist." They were failures in the music business and education, but I guess they had to justify somehow that the master's degrees they had made them an artist. They always seemed to be the ones who could not cut it or get hired. Just my experience.
 

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\

The strange part about getting older is seeing that everything old is new again. I filled in as a ringer with a rock band that got booked into the biggest club in Vancouver B.C. in 1974. The front man moved around as he sang, but the club owners were upset that the rest of the band did not move around. They said, "can't you guys jump up and down or something?" The band finally got fired for not jumping around while we played, and it had a 4 piece horn section. NO, you can not play a sax or trumpet jumping up and down.
A friend of mine who is a great lead trumpet player out of Miami, and played with Sinatra, recorded with Streisand, Bee Gees, and others did a tour with K.C. And The Sunshine Band during the disco era in the 70's K.C., the leader put two trumpet players who actually played the trumpet parts off stage on the side, and pretty well out of view. They played the trumpet parts. He also had two trumpet players on stage who pretended to play, who jumped around, and twirled their trumpets, but they could not play a note of music. In order to twirl the trumpets they had the tuning slides welded shut, and they never played a note. The audience thought they were playing, but nope, they were just for show. It is show biz.
When I got to playing name acts for big venues, nobody jumped around. The Temptations and 4 Tops had their dance routines, and they were great to work with, but the band mostly sat in chairs and played the music. In recording, jumping around only works if you are pretending to play for a video. The recording would totally suck if you jumped around or danced. A lot of live performances are illusion, and you never even know it.
Hey can I get your email address? I'm going to be filming a video on "How to Name-Drop" and you seem to have a ton of experience with it. I think someone posted your info in another thread, but I want to be sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey can I get your email address? I'm going to be filming a video on "How to Name-Drop" and you seem to have a ton of experience with it. I think someone posted your info in another thread, but I want to be sure.
I guess some people like you have a hard time dealing with people who are successful. So I need to apologize now for the great musicians I worked with in my lifetime? I guess there are always people who are jealous of the success of others who actually did well in the music business. Now, may I please ask what your posting has to do with the subject at hand? Answer: NOTHING You must lead a pretty sad and pathetic life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Many years ago I read a poem on here that Tim Price wrote about the snoring sounds at night on the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra bus. I guess Tim dropped a name, and I also toured with that same band a bit before Tim joined it. I met Tim when he was a student at Berklee around 1970 when I was visiting one of his room mates who was a trumpet player, Ross Konikoff. Am I to be criticized not for mentioning the same band that Tim did? This is just getting silly. I have a lot of respect for Tim, and when I met him many decades ago we hit it off, and he was a cool guy who played great. The lesson I learned over the years, and especially applies to contracting an orchestra is: Good musicians like to play with good musicians. If I could pay someone extra out of my pocket who was a name player, and had the credentials of playing with name bands, or sitting associate concertmaster in the Chicago Symphony, it made a difference, and then other great musicians would want to be in that section. Having people with name recognition attracts others who are also exceptional, and I ended up with exceptional orchestra's, and conductors loved me for it. It generated more road tours for me. Name recognition of being a principal player with the CSO made a difference for me, I did not brag about it, but the other musicians knew who that person was by their position in a world class orchestra. None of the people I hired needed to resort to adding extra keys painted red to their instruments. It is hard enough just to keep up on any instrument at that level. I am sure you would agree with that. Success begets success, and it worked for me in orchestra contracting.

I would get conductors for touring Broadway shows from NYC, and often hired a french horn player who used to live there, and was one of the best. He would often chat with the conductors about different musicians or conductors they both knew, their backgrounds, who they played with, and that happened with other players who moved here from Vegas after that scene crashed. It is pretty normal, and no big deal. Here apparently it is a big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, indeed your opinion on Zhenya Strigalev was clear to me, and obviously it was just your opinion - I get that

I apologise I phrased my query in a way that gave the impression I was attacking you. I think it's fine if when someone's credibility is questioned that you can justify it with your successes. No problem there, I do it sometimes (not being a believer in false modesty)

There was only one teeny thing I honestly didn't understand, which was your comment about musicians who call themselves artists. I thought that someone (either a member of Zhenya Strigalev) had done that and I was struggling to find where it was so I asked.

That is all. No attack meant, and I have no issue with relevant name dropping (which it did seem to be in this case) my intention was just curiosity. Take it how you will, I am not always the best at articulating what I mean.
OK, now I understand you better Pete, and that makes sense. I believe you played alto with Maynard back in 1971, unless there is another Pete King who did. You are a great sax player, and jazz musician. I respect that, it is a feather in your hat, and over the years Buddy and Maynard's band would sometimes run into each other, and they traded war stories, but the two bands had different leadership. In the end, we were all musicians who played with a name big band. That is something any musician should be proud of because those were some great bands. No need to resort to extra keys painted red in those days. Perhaps at age 72, I have just aged out.
 

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I guess some people like you have a hard time dealing with people who are successful. So I need to apologize now for the great musicians I worked with in my lifetime? I guess there are always people who are jealous of the success of others who actually did well in the music business. Now, may I please ask what your posting has to do with the subject at hand? Answer: NOTHING You must lead a pretty sad and pathetic life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!! Oh man, thanks so much for the laughs, I genuinely appreciate it. Hahahaha!! 😂 😂
 
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