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Okay, so I've been working on Steve's ii-V-I for just about two weeks now and I have two observations: 1) the patterns are really fun and challenging and 2) I totally stink!

That is, I've only managed to play 4 of them so far and each time I go back I have to slow down again almost to where I started. I don't mind at all, but talk about revealing! I feel like a government mule! I thought I could play in Fsharp!

Anyway, just for conversations sake, what kind of metronome speed do other folks manage to get reading these patterns. What's considered respectable?

You monster chops guys/gals who can play them in altissimo are welcome to kick me while I'm (sort of) down, but I'm really interested to hear from normal human folk.

Thanks for some awesome practice material Steve!

Rory
 

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Man, this thread title scared me! I thought maybe you were following me last night and saw me playing "Sunrise Sunset" at that Jewish wedding or.........maybe broke into my house and discovered my Kenny G collection of CD's under my bed with the inscription " Keep playing Steve and you also can be a Songbird!!!:shock:
 

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Nefertiti said:
...maybe broke into my house and discovered my Kenny G collection of CD's under my bed with the inscription " Keep playing Steve and you also can be a Songbird!!!:shock:
BLASPHEMY!


EDIT: Rory, I am sure that you don't stink, btw. If anything, you will be getting better by practicing the patterns and figuring out what you have to work on!
 

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Hey, I've only managed to get 4 down as well.

Are you cats trying to memorise all/most of them?

Do you think thats the proper way to go about learning these licks? or are you using them for fingering, sight-reading etc...?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have no fear, Steve. You are, however, going to have to learn to deal with the superstardom that inevitably comes with having written a blockbuster best seller. :)


Hey Omes:

I'm trying to memorize them: I find I can do pretty well with the segments over the iim chord and over the I chord, but the V7 chord part throws me--especially in "hard" keys like C#. That said, My feeling is that the benefit will not be so much in having these patterns as licks, but in an improvement in speed, dexterity etc and in being able to hear/play over the ii-V-I harmony.


R
 

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Nefertiti said:
Man, this thread title scared me! I thought maybe you were following me last night and saw me playing "Sunrise Sunset" at that Jewish wedding or.........maybe broke into my house and discovered my Kenny G collection of CD's under my bed with the inscription " Keep playing Steve and you also can be a Songbird!!!:shock:
Respect to you for that response, Mr N. :)
 

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Rory,

Metronome on it's slowest setting. 40BPM . Once you get the line down that slow you can always double time it.

I do this on everything. Neffs lines are great but memorizing them and using them is very difficult. Break things down to where you get the II line down and then some V lines , you can mix and match and make your own lines which is the ultimate goal.

Key in on the movement from the 7th on the II chord to the 3rd on the V chord. That's the most important aspect because the ear hears the harmonic movement. You'll see this in a majority of the lines . The book has great VOCABULARY in it .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Mike,

My problem is that when I look at/listen to the V7 segments, I just don't seem to see the chord tones: my brain only seems to recognize 1-3-5-7, and occasionally the 2. I guess that's why most jazz still seems like a complete mystery to me!

Rory
 

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rleitch said:
Thanks Mike,

My problem is that when I look at/listen to the V7 segments, I just don't seem to see the chord tones: my brain only seems to recognize 1-3-5-7, and occasionally the 2. I guess that's why most jazz still seems like a complete mystery to me!

Rory
Rory,

What if those "other than 1 3 5 7" just spelled out a different chord, or extension, to the one noted above the staff?

I had the same hang up. Then I just stopped trying to make the notes fit my notions of what should be and looked at what was. That usually gave me a half dozen options. Ie; fragment of Blues Scale, diminished chord, chromatic approach to such and such a chord tone, etc.
I loked for any an every possibity and made a note of them. By the time I've studied the whole tune or solo, certain of these "ways of thinking," appear over and over again in the same places whilst others are more one off events.

By ignoring my ingrained notions of what should be, and just lining up any and every suspect, I'm usually pretty well able to pick the repeat offender,so to speak. Once that's done, I just accept that this works there and get to work shedding it.

Makes no damn sense at all, but it works for me. :D Just look for things that occur over and over again.Label them any way you like.
 

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Rory,
Many of those V licks are drawn from altered higher extensions in the V7 chord(b9,#9,#11,b13.....) You can either think about them in those terms or sometimes it's easier to think in terms of the tritone substitution. I like to think of them as parts of the altered dominant scale. The reason these are cool is because they create tension on the V chord that resolves on the I. Jamey Aebersold has a book and recording out in Vol. 84. A good exercise to do is run through all the altered dominant chords and play just the b9 then when you can do that try the b9 and the #11....... continue until you can play all the altered extensions by heart. I'm glad you like the book. I wish there was a way to make it easier. I haven't figured that one out yet. Steve
 

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First I want to thank you Nef for providing these. They are great.

I went through the first dozen or so and picked out a couple that I like the best, then went to work on them in all the keys. I don't read them (beyond the first time to see what they are, of course), but commit them to memory in one or two keys, then start running them through all the other keys. This takes time and effort, but is well worth it.

Finally, I can use one them effectively (in fact it's VERY effective) in a couple of jump blues tunes with the band! I was really pleased when this worked out. I still need to get it usable in all the keys, but it's working in the keys I need it for right now.

Here's something I'm discovering: Once you get a couple of these down, you can start fooling with them a bit, rhythmically and with note choices, and you'll discover some more lines that work well. Also, if you have some other ii-V-I patterns that you already know, bits & pieces of those will creep in. Flexibility is the ultimate goal. Getting the timing down is the key.

Regarding the chord tones in the V, look for the b9 (usually moving to the 1) and see how it is used. Try running up the chord arpeggio from the 3rd to the b9, then down a half step to the 1:

3-5-b7-b9-1 (so if the V is C7: E G Bb Db C)

Many variations on this "theme", but that's the general sound. I actually first discoverd this on some ii-Vs from Tim Price. Also some on Pete Thomas's site. Man, I have a long ways to go on this, but it's really fun to work on.

Thanks again, Nef!
 

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I'm getting a lot out of the patterns, and I use them for all sorts of things: fingering, ideas, time, vocabulary...they're really great, and if you don't have it already, I can recommend the approach note book, as well....
 
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