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Discussion Starter #1
I imagine this has something to do with my embouchure, but it seems no matter what i do to it, one octave is in tune, and the other is 20 cents away.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

David
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, forgot to mention! It's a Selmer Series III Tenor. And I'm playing a Guardalla Super King with 2 1/2 Vandoren V16's.
 

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Play your mouthpiece alone. It should sound around a concert G. Play with that embouchure on the horn. See if that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
but does it make sense that it would be in tune in one octave and not in tune in the next octave (with the same 20ish cents difference on every note in the octave)?
 

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Some super king's are harder to control in the upper register --- as you said , mess around with your embouchure and see what works best for you . also check that none of the pads are sticking on your horn
 

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daviddoria said:
but does it make sense that it would be in tune in one octave and not in tune in the next octave (with the same 20ish cents difference on every note in the octave)?
Yes, if you're not using the proper airstream.
 

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Move the mouthpiece until you find the octaves in tune with one another. Then look at the tuner. As H' suggested, you may need to adjust your embouchure.

The Serie III tenors that I have owned and played were amazingly in tune. The first, after playing a BA for a decade, was wildly out of tune all over the horn - until I noticed that I was still applying all the intonation corrections I had learned for the BA. Once I stopped muscling the mouthpiece around, my intonation locked in.

My guess is that you need to relax - relax your embouchure, that is.
 

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Maybe the mouthpiece is too extreme. I don't know this model, but if it has a radical baffle, it could affect intonation in a big way. (King doesn't stand for King Curtis does it?) That could explain it!!! Try a medium mouthpiece- it might very well even out the scale. Or a different neck...... Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
haha there is clearly some way to get any mouthpiece in tune in both octaves, i'm simply doing something wrong :)

I've never heard of getting a new neck.. what difference would that make?
 

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asaxman said:
Maybe the mouthpiece is too extreme. I don't know this model, but if it has a radical baffle, it could affect intonation in a big way. (King doesn't stand for King Curtis does it?) That could explain it!!! Try a medium mouthpiece- it might very well even out the scale. Or a different neck...... Good luck!
He doesn't need a new neck. I'm sure the stock neck on that III will play in tune with the mouthpiece in the right spot and the correct embouchure/throat voicing. I wish people would quit looking for the easy(expensive) solution.
That mouthpiece might be a bit much, though.....
 

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If your mouthpiece is too far out on the neck you'll have the exact problems you've mentioned. Push in, loosen up, & put more of the mouthpiece in your mouth. Putting more of the mouthpiece in your mouth can also have the same effect as loosening up since it would require more pressure to close the reed. You may need to go to a softer reed if this is too difficult.
 

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daviddoria said:
but does it make sense that it would be in tune in one octave and not in tune in the next octave (with the same 20ish cents difference on every note in the octave)?
Yes. You're biting, I think. Been there, done that. I have a mouthpiece that has caused me the same difficulties. Problem was simply that I played too loose in the low register, and started biting in the upper one. As mentioned more often here, you should play in the whole range with the same embouchure. For the higher notes, you might need to tense up your embouchure a little (especially when you "subtone" in the lower register). But the shape of your embouchure should be exactly the same.

An exercise for that is jumping octaves : play C1-C2-B2-B1-A1-A2-G2-G1-F1-F2-... You get the system, and you have to focus on keeping the same embouchure while jumping from one octave to the other.

I guess the problem is the worst when you go to A2 and above. There a slightly wrong embouchure on an open mouthpiece can give deviations up to 50 cents I've noticed myself.

Good luck.
 

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Personally, i would try softer reeds as a first step rather than assuming such an expensive m/p has to go in the drawer. But if you can't play it in tune without biting higher up the scale it may well be that you need something a bit more closed..
 

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Rooty, it doesn't have to go in the drawer, it just needs to be in the correct place on the cork. The Serie III is a pretty mouthpiece friendly horn.
 

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A tried-and-true method:

Play middle C (third space), then play the overtone on low C that produces the same pitch. If you cannot play the overtone, just try playing middle C by fingering low C with the octave key. If the low C fingering is noticeably sharper than the normal fingering (usually the case) push the mouthpiece further on the neck until the pitches are the same.

Now turn on your tuner and try the octave comparisons. Chances are everything will be "equally sharp" in both octaves. You have now found the optimal acoustic location for your mouthpiece on the neck. If you cannot comfortably play in tune here, you can put the mouthpiece back in its original location and try to deal with the issues or leave it where it is and play long tones, scales, etc. with something like The Tuning CD.

The Tuning CD is much more valuable than a tuner for learning to play in tune, as it makes you listen, rather than watch, and I think that makes tuning adjustments become much more instinctive, compared to watching a tuner and then conciously making some adjustment. In the latter case, you will intellectually know what to do, but I do not believe you will actually internalize it the way you would with an aural exercise. If you don't want to spring for the Tuning CD, you can practice playing octaves, fourths, fifths, etc. with a metronome or tuner that produces reference tones.

Alan
 

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Dr G said:
Rooty, it doesn't have to go in the drawer, it just needs to be in the correct place on the cork. The Serie III is a pretty mouthpiece friendly horn.
Dr G. Are you saying that just repositioning the m/p on the neck cork will solve his problem? Won't that just mean his in tune notes will be flat? Am I missing something on this one? awhollley: Good points, i think, on visual/aural re tuning. Thank you.
 

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RootyTootoot said:
Dr G. Are you saying that just repositioning the m/p on the neck cork will solve his problem? Won't that just mean his in tune notes will be flat? Am I missing something on this one? awhollley: Good points, i think, on visual/aural re tuning.
G is correct.

My Yani soprano is EXTREMELY sensitive to where the mouthpiece is.

If I just stick it on and play, the upper register is out of tune with the lower register.

When I tune the horn to the Piano and correctly position the mouthpiece, it plays completely in tune on upper and lower.
 

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If the mouthpiece is in the right place making the "horn" in tune with itself, but is still out of tune with the rest of the world (sharp) is it ok to pull the neck out a little bit to get back in tune with the rest of the world?
 

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davidanthony411 said:
If the mouthpiece is in the right place making the "horn" in tune with itself, but is still out of tune with the rest of the world (sharp) is it ok to pull the neck out a little bit to get back in tune with the rest of the world?

Think Blowing down. Warmer air. In other words,put more volume of air into the horn.

The pitch should go down.
 
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