[Heiko]

I just wanted to share with you the following lick:

b c d c f# g a g d# e f e over a Cmaj chord.

This is basically the chord tones c, g and e ornamented by approaching them from a half step below, then from a (C major diatonic) whole or half step above. That is how I understand it.

It sounds so much better than the fully diatonic version based on the C major scale, which sounds bland:

b c d c f g a g d e f e

Isn't it amazing how raising only two of these twelve notes by a half step (f to f# and d to d#) completely changes the feel of this lick? Has anybody got a theoretical explanation for this?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Not really, the ears make the best explanation. But I'll hazard a guess:

Approach tones sound better than (diatonic) non chord tones.
There is more tension and colour, the dissonance of these in the way they are played is totally acceptable dissonance because they are approach tones.

The voice leading is a big part of what makes a good melodic line, f# to g is better than f to g in that respect.

 

[Jazz House]

This is the stuff in Joe Violas Technique for Saxophone Vol II. Check out Steve Coleman for this type of playing. Also check out Benny Carter's solo on Ben Webster's Jive at Six. It's called approach technique.

 

[saxpiece]

I just wanted to share with you the following lick:

b c d c f# g a g d# e f e over a Cmaj chord.

This is basically the chord tones c, g and e ornamented by approaching them from a half step below, then from a (C major diatonic) whole or half step above. That is how I understand it.

It sounds so much better than the fully diatonic version based on the C major scale, which sounds bland:

b c d c f g a g d e f e

Isn't it amazing how raising only two of these twelve notes by a half step (f to f# and d to d#) completely changes the feel of this lick? Has anybody got a theoretical explanation for this?

Well, the F# and Eb(D#) are blues notes ie b5th and m3rd and they are resolving to their upper neighbor.

This sort of thing is quite commonly used to add a bit of a blues touch to major harmony.

 

[bakkiemetkoekie]

I think its more a excercise when you do this with every triad of the scale. Its 12 notes together so if you do this in triplets you have one bar.

 

[StanVI]

Sounds a lot like the Viola book.... and the lydian (f#) often sounds really nice on a maj 7th chord....

 

[Jazz House]

^ That too. The lydian sound is great. Try Joe Henderson.

 

[piwikiwi]

Not really, the ears make the best explanation. But I'll hazard a guess:

Approach tones sound better than (diatonic) non chord tones.
There is more tension and colour, the dissonance of these in the way they are played is totally acceptable dissonance because they are approach tones.

The voice leading is a big part of what makes a good melodic line, f# to g is better than f to g in that respect.

I agree, just diatonics on a major chord sound a little weak to me.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Just a (possibly pedantic) note about the responses in regard to lydian mode. Yes, F# is part of the lydian mode in C, but in this case that note is not function as a note in a lydian mode, it's a chromatic approach tone. If it was a lydian mode, we'd have to also account for the D# which is part of the lick, and of course that isn't in the lydian moe.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the OP asked for the theory as to why this sounds good.

 

[Heiko]

Thanks for the answers, everybody!

More often than not there are different ways to skin the Jazz theory cat. Seems like this is a typical one of this cases. After all, things like approach notes or scale modes are just models that were invented to fit musical perception into a formal framework. Some models will work well in explaining certain sounds, other sounds will require different models.

Here is a very nice example of how to use this lick in real life:

The guy is playing it over the first four bars of his second chorus on Valse Hot, at 1:03. The chords transposed for tenor are |Bbmaj7|Ebmaj7|Dm7|G7|. Listen how nicely he resolves into the G7.

a bb || c bb e f g f | db d eb d c bb | b d f g ab bb | g

 

[Kelly Bucheger]

I'd definitely engage the "voice leading and melodic embellishment" part of my brain before I'd engage the "harmony/modes/etc." part of my brain to get an understanding of where this lick is coming from.

Here is a very nice example of how to use this lick in real life:

Oy Vey What A Great Player! And he's German?!? Jeez, killin' tenor players are spreading like kudzu or something...

 

[Agent27]

Well, the F# and Eb(D#) are blues notes ie b5th and m3rd and they are resolving to their upper neighbor.

This sort of thing is quite commonly used to add a bit of a blues touch to major harmony.

Except that it doesn't invoke a blues sound. Like what Pete said, the presence of the F# doesn't make it Lydian and the presence of and F# and an D#/Eb doesn't make it bluesy.

 

[StanVI]

Just a (possibly pedantic) note about the responses in regard to lydian mode. Yes, F# is part of the lydian mode in C, but in this case that note is not function as a note in a lydian mode, it's a chromatic approach tone. If it was a lydian mode, we'd have to also account for the D# which is part of the lick, and of course that isn't in the lydian moe.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the OP asked for the theory as to why this sounds good.

Pete-
You are correct, I was referring to using the F# in relation to the chord, which is lydian, not all the notes he used.... with the D#, they would be approach notes....

 

[sonnymobleytrane]

Thanks for the answers, everybody!

More often than not there are different ways to skin the Jazz theory cat. Seems like this is a typical one of this cases. After all, things like approach notes or scale modes are just models that were invented to fit musical perception into a formal framework. Some models will work well in explaining certain sounds, other sounds will require different models.

Here is a very nice example of how to use this lick in real life:

The guy is playing it over the first four bars of his second chorus on Valse Hot, at 1:03. The chords transposed for tenor are |Bbmaj7|Ebmaj7|Dm7|G7|. Listen how nicely he resolves into the G7.

a bb || c bb e f g f | db d eb d c bb | b d f g ab bb | g

Wow Hubert Winter! Nice playing.

 

[saxpiece]

Except that it doesn't invoke a blues sound. Like what Pete said, the presence of the F# doesn't make it Lydian and the presence of and F# and an D#/Eb doesn't make it bluesy.

Yes, that's due to the movement from the b5th to the 5th and the m3rd to the 3rd.

If the movement was from the b5 to the 4th or the m3rd to the 2nd then it would sound bluesier.

The m3rd to the 3rd is really common in so many things like Bird and R&B etc and the b5th to the 5th is really just a similar thing applied to a different chord note.

Blues m3rd to major 3rd.

Blues b5th to major 5th.

That's how I look at it anyway.