[Roundmidnite]

I like to write/arrange/record music by way of desktop recording as a hobby. I'm wondering if any of you who know about this can possibly help. I have Win 10, Reason Suite 11, i7 -8565U CPU 16 GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 2nd Gen, Nektar Panorama P-6, JBL 306P MkII Powered Studio Monitors. I've done destop recording for many years, have had recording and mixing classes, so I know enough to get me in trouble!

My problem is that I will be in the middle of recording saxophone, flute,vocal etc., or playing the keyboard, and suddenly, with no warning-- and with me doing nothing else, it will slide up a half step. I can go into the key board and use transpose to fix it, but everything I've recorded is now, weirdly a half step off. Any new stuff I do will be right, but then it happens again. VERY FRUSTRATNG!!!!!!!!!

I have contacted both the DAW company (Reason)- especially since I recently upgraded, and I contacted the keyboard company. The keyboard was designed to work with this DAW. The problem is present whether I use the laset version of Reason (Suite 11) or the old one (10). I made sure I had the right drivers for the interface. I went on Gearslutz, but many of those guys are techies and guitar players but not really about notation- like actual notes and stuff- so with my techie deficit it's hard to communicate. Let me know if you have ideas-

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Weird! I have to admit, I don't think I've ever had this happen to me in a DAW... I don't use Reason (do with that what you will...) but it's a much-beloved program, for sure. I assume this is all happening in MIDI? It would be very strange indeed if audio were to suddenly be auto-tuned up a half step. With MIDI it's still weird, but not impossible, and the first two things I'd double-check are your MIDI controller (are the pitch/mod wheels doing anything strange or sending MIDI information unprompted? If so, system reset!) and your automation in the DAW. If things are automating without you intending to, that's troubling, but at least addressable.

Either way, I think contacting the company is indeed the best place to start. Well done!

 

[soybean]

Somehow you are accidentally touching a key command that will transpose things. Or, there is a control change recorded on one of your tracks. Also check to see if any kind of transposition messages being sent out from your keyboard. Good luck.

 

[Roundmidnite]

Not happening on audio tracks- just midi. But I was convinced I was playing horribly out of tune since the track I made was sooooo sharp until I figured it out! Thing is, I'm not touching key commands because I'm literally playing the keyboard when it happens. Also, no automation on for that- is there even automation for transposing in a DAW? I use other automation but not for pitch. I did factory reset, luck. It actually fixes itself and then starts doing it again. Maybe it's possessed! People have suggested sample rate, but that doesn't appear to be it. Hopefully the company will respond today.

 

[Taragot]

I rember a similar problem some years ago.
If my memory serves me well, the sampling frequenzy in my us-122 interface was changed from 44,1 to 48 or vice versa. This was about a halftone.
Hope this helps

 

[Taragot]

.... and the sample frequency has been changed in a submenu wher i never was before.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Taragot -- That would affect audio input and recording but not MIDI.

Roundmidnite -- It's probably not a mysterious automation thing, that's just one potential area of investigation I thought of since isolating issues like this can be challenging. The actual Reason experts will hopefully have some experience with things like this happening and be able to do more!

But yes, automation can potentially automate... well... just about anything. There are many different ways you could automate a pitch shift or modulation in either MIDI or audio. Most of those methods would involve automating a pitch-shift plugin, though, so the odds of it happening accidentally would seem small indeed!

If your MIDI notes are actually being entered correctly and then being transposed and you can see that reflected in your piano roll, it seems much more likely that there's some kind of an unwanted auto-transpose function (or bug or glitch) happening. Maybe that's peculiar to Reason, I've never encountered anything like it in Logic/ProTools/Ableton.

 

[Bubba06]

No DAW expert by any means, but perhaps look into how you would transpose MIDI on purpose, if you wanted, and see if there's a way your hitting that function somehow?

I ran into the rookie mistake of not setting the tempo before importing a track, is there any way you're importing things "out of order," so to speak?

-Bubba-

 

[mmichel]

Not happening on audio tracks- just midi. But I was convinced I was playing horribly out of tune since the track I made was sooooo sharp until I figured it out! Thing is, I'm not touching key commands because I'm literally playing the keyboard when it happens. Also, no automation on for that- is there even automation for transposing in a DAW? I use other automation but not for pitch. I did factory reset, luck. It actually fixes itself and then starts doing it again. Maybe it's possessed! People have suggested sample rate, but that doesn't appear to be it. Hopefully the company will respond today.

I agree with HeavyWeather above that it's almost certainly a problem with your midi controller, and probably caused by unintended drift of the pitch/mod wheels.

I'd recommend trying one (or both) of the following:

1. Tape the pitch wheel(s) in place.
2. Get Reason to ignore pitch bend signals by deleting the pitch bend line in the remotemap (after backing up the original file, of course).

For option (2), I don't think that the Reason interface provides a simple way to do this (I'm not a Reason user, so I'm not sure), but there should be a "Remote/Maps" file that defines the mappings (according to this page, it should be at "%ProgramData%\Propellerhead Software\Remote\Maps" on Windows systems). You should back up that file (i.e., make a renamed copy of it), then use a text editor (e.g., like Notepad) to edit the original by deleting the line that says:

Map	        Pitch Bend Wheel		Pitch Bend

After restarting the program, it should no longer read the input from the pitch bend wheel and your problem should be gone. You can always restore this functionality (using the backed up file) if you fix or replace your midi controller.

 

[Roundmidnite]

The keyboard people said tht often when a controller transmits erroneous data it's because dirt or dust has gotten into the control's potentiometer. This can cause noise in the circuit which will result in values fluctuating and being transmitted erroneously. The suggestion is to quickly move the Pitch Wheel through it's entire range, 10-20 times. If the problem is caused by dirt, that should clear it out. I did this and it fixes it, but then it quickly reverts when I start paying again.

Taragot- yes I looked at sampling rate, no luck- as heavyweather said- midi tracks, so assuming only affects those? Not sure if there's a submenu- I just go into preferences in my DAW under audio where you set the frequency.

Heavyweather- Yes, MIDI notes are actually being entered correctly and then being transposed and I can see that reflected in your piano roll, so yes, it seems much more likely that there's some kind of an unwanted auto-transpose function (or bug or glitch) happening- but weird that it comes and goes. Why would that be?

Bubba- I've been looking at the transpose functions on keyboard and transposing just to see if that works, and it does. Problem is they just change on their own randomly (but always a half step up)

mmichel- My gut tells me you're right it's almost certainly a problem w/ the midi controller, and probably caused by unintended drift of the pitch/mod wheels. Getting into the mapping stuff is pretty intimidating to be honest- I'm hoping the tape idea works- duct tape can fix anything. right?

 

[soybean]

…Heavyweather- Yes, MIDI notes are actually being entered correctly and then being transposed and I can see that reflected in your piano roll, so yes, it seems much more likely that there's some kind of an unwanted auto-transpose function (or bug or glitch) happening- but weird that it comes and goes. Why would that be?…

If the pitch transpose is recorded somewhere in your data, it is just playing back every time you play the sequence. In that case, you would need to find the transpose message and delete it.

 

[mmichel]

The keyboard people said tht often when a controller transmits erroneous data it's because dirt or dust has gotten into the control's potentiometer. This can cause noise in the circuit which will result in values fluctuating and being transmitted erroneously. The suggestion is to quickly move the Pitch Wheel through it's entire range, 10-20 times. If the problem is caused by dirt, that should clear it out. I did this and it fixes it, but then it quickly reverts when I start paying again.

mmichel- My gut tells me you're right it's almost certainly a problem w/ the midi controller, and probably caused by unintended drift of the pitch/mod wheels. Getting into the mapping stuff is pretty intimidating to be honest- I'm hoping the tape idea works- duct tape can fix anything. right?

If you're uncomfortable with editing the Reason remote mapping file, you should check with Nektar to see if there's some way to disable the pitch bend wheel in the keyboard's software.

I also found that Nektar recommends a software utility (MIDI Ox) that should at least allow you to confirm that the problem is originating from the keyboard and not the DAW. According to this Nektar page, after you start up the software and select your controller, you should see any errant signals (e.g., pink Pitch Bend signals) that are being transmitted erroneously.

 

[Roundmidnite]

If you're uncomfortable with editing the Reason remote mapping file, you should check with Nektar to see if there's some way to disable the pitch bend wheel in the keyboard's software.

I also found that Nektar recommends a software utility (MIDI Ox) that should at least allow you to confirm that the problem is originating from the keyboard and not the DAW. According to this Nektar page, after you start up the software and select your controller, you should see any errant signals (e.g., pink Pitch Bend signals) that are being transmitted erroneously.

Yes- The Nektar people referred me to their "Midi Commuinications issues" support, and it said to get MIDIOX, so I did. I selected the ports like it said and it didn't show the Note on and Note off data. In Windows only one application can access a devices MIDI ports at a time, and it says this is the cause of most of the MIDI communications issues in Windows- and that most of the time, this kind of problem is caused by having two music applications open at the same time. In those cases, you can simply close your music applications, and open the one which you would like to use with your Nektar controller first.

However, it says there are some applications which run in the back ground or are not obviously compatible with MIDI devices, so it's not as easy to tell that there is a problem. For example, the control panel software for some Audio interfaces can be controlled via MIDI, so they can grab MIDI ports as your computer begins to start up. Also, Google Chrome has MIDI extensions, so it is recommended to make sure that Chrome is not running when you try to start your music applications.

I still have Reason 10 installed- I actually need to see if I have even older versions still installed (I've used Reason for many years!) Is it OK to uninstall Rason 10 and any others I find? Do I need to back up anything if I do?