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alto sax
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While I don't condone your methodology for promoting this implement, I am not completely closed-minded. I accept your offer to try this out. I will attempt a double-blind test and report the results. If I have evidence that the thing makes a verifiable difference, I will be happy to pay for it. Look for my PM.
Thats great. I will send you PM, so you send me your address. The most important test is when you ask somebody to do about 4-5 takes including takes with resonator and without. That person has to install it properly, obviously. Then you say which time you prefer the feel and prefer the ability to play altissimo. Then compare with the sheet where it says when the resonator was on and when off... Speak soon. Thanks,
 

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‘38 Buescher AristoTenor, ‘66 Martin Magna Tenor
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Thats great. I will send you PM, so you send me your address. The most important test is when you ask somebody to do about 4-5 takes including takes with resonator and without. That person has to install it properly, obviously. Then you say which time you prefer the feel and prefer the ability to play altissimo. Then compare with the sheet where it says when the resonator was on and when off... Speak soon. Thanks,
I will design the test following a single-blind methodology since a full double-blind is impractical and just not worth the effort as I have no dog in this fight. You will just have to take it on faith that I am setting up the tests as impartially as I can.
I plan on asking my sensei (Berklee grad, pro player) to be the subject. He will play on my setup (since he may be able to tell the difference too easily on his) and I will ask him to do several takes with the resonator being installed randomly by me without his knowledge.
Then i will post the video here to see if viewers can tell a difference. Then I will post parts of the video where he gives his impression. Finally, after everyone on the forum has weighed in, I will reveal the full continuous video showing me installing the device or not before each take.

Let me know if that sounds fair or not. Would appreciate feedback from the community on whether there are problems with this design.
 

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I will design the test following a single-blind methodology since a full double-blind is impractical and just not worth the effort as I have no dog in this fight. You will just have to take it on faith that I am setting up the tests as impartially as I can.
Whatever...Not a big deal as long as its good for you. I send you PM message. Thanks,
 

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Cannonball Vintage Reborn Tenor Sax with Cannonball 5J hr (Meyer clone produced by JJ Babbitt))
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The only thing missing is a control group, and that would be close to impossible to do. That group must hear the same sounds and play the same horn, evaluating that sound and performance the same number of times. There is always a percentage of change and establishing a baseline is important in order to solidify any results. Estimating normative changes must reduce any given results.
 

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I will design the test following a single-blind methodology since a full double-blind is impractical and just not worth the effort as I have no dog in this fight. You will just have to take it on faith that I am setting up the tests as impartially as I can.
The only thing missing is a control group, and that would be close to impossible to do. That group must hear the same sounds and play the same horn, evaluating that sound and performance the same number of times. There is always a percentage of change and establishing a baseline is important in order to solidify any results. Estimating normative changes must reduce any given results.
duly noted. appreciate the feedback, but as you say, impractical. Best I can do is that I can be the control by having my sensei reeat the experiment.
 

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The only thing missing is a control group,...
I'd say that there are a LOT of things missing. To do a valid test you absolutely MUST have an absolutely invariant embochure and air support, and with a person blowing the horn that's impossible. You need a very good recording system and a dead room, with the horn and mic in identical locations each trial. For each trial, you need to play the same set of notes, spaced over the range of the horn, with multiple samples of the same note (at least five) and the order of each sample needs to be randomized. Repeat the entire trial several times over the course of a few days. You need to do include a frequency analysis of each individual note to understand the normal variance.
 

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Yeah make sure the material (notes) is the same between all takes. It’s also expected that a first take will always be different from a second take, energywise, so you need some way of taking breaks and restarting so the same horn is not always first.
 

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I'd say that there are a LOT of things missing. To do a valid test you absolutely MUST have an absolutely invariant embochure and air support, and with a person blowing the horn that's impossible. You need a very good recording system and a dead room, with the horn and mic in identical locations each trial. For each trial, you need to play the same set of notes, spaced over the range of the horn, with multiple samples of the same note (at least five) and the order of each sample needs to be randomized. Repeat the entire trial several times over the course of a few days. You need to do include a frequency analysis of each individual note to understand the normal variance.
The purpose of a control group would be to estimate such variables. This data would be used to reduce the numbers on the test, approaching the possibility of an actual change. We already know that we can play differently at times on the same setup with the same reed. Fact is, the reed is changing as we play. And we all know that a one-off exists all the time. I can play a practice piece perfectly (I even like it) and the next day the same piece is horrid. that's life. But it needs to be figured into any sort of test.
 

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No test will satisfy people, as indicated above everybody wants something different, everything can be called into question, and will be, so do the best you can. They're all valid points but are impossible to achieve. A disinterested opinion is as good as can be hoped for, a subjective response is still worth having.
 
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The purpose of a control group would be to estimate such variables. This data would be used to reduce the numbers on the test, approaching the possibility of an actual change. We already know that we can play differently at times on the same setup with the same reed. Fact is, the reed is changing as we play. And we all know that a one-off exists all the time. I can play a practice piece perfectly (I even like it) and the next day the same piece is horrid. that's life. But it needs to be figured into any sort of test.
Yes. The test described:
I plan on asking my sensei (Berklee grad, pro player) to be the subject. He will play on my setup (since he may be able to tell the difference too easily on his) and I will ask him to do several takes with the resonator being installed randomly by me without his knowledge.​
doesn't come anywhere close to achieving that.

No test will satisfy people,
A valid test would certainly satisfy me, to the confidence interval it could support.

They're all valid points but are impossible to achieve.
It's far from impossible to perform a valid test of this. It just takes a properly designed experiment and the right equipment.
 

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Yes. The test described:
I plan on asking my sensei (Berklee grad, pro player) to be the subject. He will play on my setup (since he may be able to tell the difference too easily on his) and I will ask him to do several takes with the resonator being installed randomly by me without his knowledge.​
doesn't come anywhere close to achieving that.


A valid test would certainly satisfy me, to the confidence interval it could support.


It's far from impossible to perform a valid test of this. It just takes a properly designed experiment and the right equipment.
As I said "No test will satisfy people". If you can design the test let's have it. Make sure it's one that can be achieved by mere mortals without advanced scientific equipment because that equipment is probably being put to better uses.
 

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If you can design the test let's have it. Make sure it's one that can be achieved by mere mortals without advanced scientific equipment...
Design the test, but don't use any of the test equipment that's needed perform a valid test?

No one should ever be satisfied with a test like that. I certainly won't satisfy me.
 

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I'd say that there are a LOT of things missing. To do a valid test you absolutely MUST have an absolutely invariant embochure and air support, and with a person blowing the horn that's impossible. You need a very good recording system and a dead room, with the horn and mic in identical locations each trial. For each trial, you need to play the same set of notes, spaced over the range of the horn, with multiple samples of the same note (at least five) and the order of each sample needs to be randomized. Repeat the entire trial several times over the course of a few days. You need to do include a frequency analysis of each individual note to understand the normal variance.
So many variables to control for…. There is no way I am up to this level of rigour. The room we have is a fairly dead room and we will try to keep the horn and recording device potions fixed. The the results at face value FWIW.
 

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Design the test, but don't use any of the test equipment that's needed perform a valid test?

No one should ever be satisfied with a test like that. I certainly won't satisfy me.
Read what I said, looking forward to seeing your proposal.
 

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So many variables to control for…. There is no way I am up to this level of rigour. The room we have is a fairly dead room and we will try to keep the horn and recording device potions fixed. The the results at face value FWIW.
As long as the methodology is expressed, the experiment is fully explained, then the results can be peer reviewed. This is all that needs to be accomplished. It would be good to list your concerns over your own procedure as well.
 

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I don't rule out the possibility that this thing changes the perceived sound by the player in some subtle way through transmission through the teeth and jaw. If it does I feel it might be more due to a tactile sensation, (like haptic feedback kind of thing). In other words , not really changing the sound, but more having an effect on the players perception, or the way the brain/ears processes the information.

Now, the chance of this thing having the dramatic effect on playing altissimo as demonstrated in his videos is just plain silly to me. The performance comes across as dishonest IMO, and totally pegs the BS meter for me.

On the other hand, this is likely to work for some people by the mere boost in confidence and willing to work at it with a little more awareness and determination. That's why placebo's work.
 

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the jaw bone> internal ear trnasmission I have mentioned from the start, may be, but again it means not much, similarly one cold say that a mouthpiece patch impairs that...

Zhenya Strigalev plays with a mouthpiece patch
 

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On the other hand, this is likely to work for some people by the mere boost in confidence and willing to work at it with a little more awareness and determination. That's why placebo's work.
I think many of the things pressed upon the sax player is the psychological effect. One plays better when one feels better. But the perception of the audience is extremely important.
 
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