[sthsquid]

Recently purchased a 1923 Martin Handcraft (silver). It was overhauled and from what I can tell everything seems tight and good, although I'm no expert. My issue is...I'm primarily a tenor player but I missed not having an alto around. I'm struggling more than I thought/expected I would, both with wind but even moreso with "missed notes" (squeaks) particularly as I come from the upper register down to say an A, G or F. I recall I'd ocassionally have this issue on other alto's I've owned in the past so I think it's "me" more than likely, but it seems a llittle worse on this horn and I know older sax's can be fussy with mpcs. So to my question:

I currently have 2 (used) that I pe-ordered knowing the horn was coming. One is going back - a Brillhart 3* with an .075 tip opening. Too much for me. I'm keeping the other, but even this one is not ideal.... an SML wih a .065 opening, but it has a "small bore". I think I need a med. to large bore for more blowing ease? I actually chipped a small sectuoin of front tooth off last night from biting so hard, didnt even realize I was doing it!

Just looking for an easy plaing, nice-souding piece...I play primarily "traditional" jazz but the horn seems flexible and I'm not all that worried about "tone", I'll shape that as best I can (and the horn seems flexible in that category which is great), but man I feel like I'm fighting this thing. I'll probably also try a 2 1/2 reed instead of a 3.

FYI I don't live in a place I can go "try" mpc's so I'll have to go the "order/return route".

Suggestions?

 

[turf3]

It's going to be the same old same old recommendations.

Brilhart Ebolin or Tonalin. Meyer 5 or 6. Link hard rubber (maybe). Selmer Soloist.

Any of these should play very well on your old Martin.

But I think you have an issue with embouchure. A .075" facing isn't particularly open, especially for a tenor player going to alto; it's about the same as a Meyer 6 which is pretty standard. I'd go down to #2 reeds till you build chops. Under no condition should you be biting so hard that you could chip a tooth.

You may have two bum mouthpieces (warped facings, for example) so it might be better to start with a fresh mouthpiece that you know is in good condition.

Also be careful that you're playing with a proper saxophone embouchure not a clarinet embouchure.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

Selmer Soloist E
Greg Wier "Ringer"

 

[JayeLID]

It's going to be the same old same old recommendations.

You forgot one:

OP is assuming all is OK with the horn, and it is leak-free.

First step....get it assessed.

If I had a dime for every thread of 3+ page conversation where the OP is 'struggling' with their horn and folks are recommending this or that reed, a teacher, a different mouthpiece, etc.....and then, finally, it ends up being a leak....
...

It could be the reed/mouthpiece combo, but...

if this thread was akin to " I am having difficulty getting my vintage Martin to intone well"....then a bunch of mouthpiece recommendations would probably be apropos.

... but it seems a llittle worse on this horn and I know older sax's can be fussy with mpcs.

Older saxes may be 'fussy' with mouthpieces, but not in the way you are assuming.
If the horn is in good playing tack, even a mismatched mouthpiece on an old horn will make it SPEAK ok. It's the intonation, tone, and perhaps the consistency of tone in different registers which might be 'off'. But not the ability for the notes to speak cleanly.

So until you are sure the horn isn't leaking....this convo may be going down the wrong path.

 

[turf3]

Jaye said it. As I re-read the OP, it sounds like a leaky horn more than anything.

 

[sthsquid]

I'm going to throw a leak light down it this afternoon. Now I'm worried I've got an opening on a tone hole since they're soldered on. Thanks to everyone so far. I'll report back...

 

[allenlowe]

yup; I have played two horns in the last few months that were "overhauled," but clearly by a trained monkey. I mean, good for him that he could even do the basic job, so I guess I can't blame him for doing it badly.

Both were fixed for about $100 each by my favorite technician (who I worship).

 

[bruce bailey]

It sounds like a problem with the octave keys. Going from A2 down, something may be dragging or not moving fast enough. Check that the neck pip and body pip are changing together.

 

[Dr G]

It sounds like a problem with the octave keys. Going from A2 down, something may be dragging or not moving fast enough. Check that the neck pip and body pip are changing together.

Amen.

It may be as simple as the octave key being bent enough to keep the octave pip on the neck from completely sealing when it is shut.

 

[zapatista]

yup; I have played two horns in the last few months that were "overhauled," but clearly by a trained monkey. I mean, good for him that he could even do the basic job, so I guess I can't blame him for doing it badly.

Both were fixed for about $100 each by my favorite technician (who I worship).

Yeah, you do work with a good tech.

 

[MojoBari]

It could be a leak at the neck joint. Goop that up with cork grease to check it.

 

[sthsquid]

OK. Threw the leaklight down....I have 2 small leaks, one on the keypad that gets depressed when you depress the A key (but sits below the A key) and one on the low D. However, I'm not totally convinced this is the entire issue...last night I was also ocassionally "missing" going from upper octave to a B or Bb (using front Bb key), in which case neither of the keypads in question are even closed. Things did seem to improve some as I loosened up a little and toyed with my volume. The pip and octave keys seem synched and working properly but I'll double check them. I just moved, and trying to find a tech up here (Cape Cod) is a real challenge, but I'd like the horn gone over at some point. I'll also try the cork grease on the neck. One other thing I noticed is the octave button is really close to the upper thumb rest so a few times I've held it slightly open unintentionally, need to pay attention to that until it becomes muscle memory.

Bottom line is I may be fighting a couple different things here, so I have to go with process of elimination 1 by 1. I'll switch to a lower reed to but probably wont buy another mpc until I've worked a few of these other issues out.

Hopefully I can work out these issues because overall I really like the horn. Thanks all, will keep posted..

 

[JayeLID]

A leak on both of those pads (the first one you mention is the Bis key.....which is what gives us the Bb note)....could cause 'missing' the notes...but the D wouldn't effect anything except the D1 and D2, or the notes below D1.

The leaky Bis (does it leak when depressed by itself, or does it leak when depressed by the A touch ? Or both ?) could mess up the horn speaking cleanly on notes Bb down in both octaves, however.

Did you double check the RH palmkeys as well (aka sidekeys) ? Side Bb, side C, and High E ? Looking really carefully between the key mechanisms on all sides of the Bb and C pads, where leaks can sometimes hide in the less visible places.
Any of those could destabilize the blowing.

The octave key thing....what you are looking for is...

1) when you release the thumb octave key do the octave pips close quickly ? or are they poky ? Then ...
2) when you finger, say, a G octave (which opens the body pip but keeps the neck pip closed) does the neck pip open slightly ? Then ...
3) when you finger a G octave then move up to an A octave, does releasing the G key close the body octave pip quickly and entirely ?

I concur with your plan, btw....

 

[sthsquid]

I mispoke (or mis-described) the upper key leak. It's the lowest keypad that gets depressed when you play an A or C, it's not that pad that gets depressed playing a Bb. Since I have no issues with C, I have to "reasonably assume" it's not causing my issue when transitioning from an upper octave note to a B thru, say, a G. Obviously I'll have the leaks looked at/addressed at some point but my gut is tellng me it's my (lack of) chops and/or mpc reed issues. I have a couple leaks on my Martin tenor (admittedly E and D notes) that I just blow right through...that thing growls and wails like nobody's business. I did recheck the pip/octave changes and to me it seems like it's timing fine with no lag. I'll do the neck sealing test tonight...

 

[sthsquid]

also checked RH palm keys with light...looking good there.