[nvilletele]

I have written, and am very thankful for the responses I received, about my first try joining a community jazz band here: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...or-Late-Bloomer-joining-first-real-Jazz-Band/

I continued with the jazz band for the fall semester, but when travels took me away for long stretches, I wasn't able to keep up, as I was just missing too much and had little to no time to practice. So I stepped out mid-term.

For the spring semester, I decided to try the concert band this time around (same band director). Went to my first class this week. So far, so good (well, there was a lot of ghosting, as I hadn't seen any of the music before the class).

While a lot (if not nearly all) of the excellent tips and advice given in the prior thread will equally apply in the concert band, I'd appreciate any further tips and advice applicable to concert band participation that may differ from or be supplemental to the prior suggestions . . . . (I need all the help I can get.)

In particular, any suggestions for a more appropriate mpc and reed? I showed up with my JJ DVNY 7 and Legere signature 2.25 and was met with comments re the jazz tone perhaps not fitting in so well. I now realize that all my Tenor pieces are so-called "jazz models" and I also found the Legere was not so great (for me) on pianissimo passages (maybe drop in strength to address? Go back to cane?) Now, I expect it may not be that big a deal to use a "jazz mouthpiece" in a concert band, and I'm certain there is a range of opinions on such matter, but I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of the SOTW mavens. I expect I will sound like myself no matter which mouthpiece I use, but still would probably be worthwhile trying out some new pieces. So let fly with any suggestions please.

Here are some of the tunes for this semester:

1812 Overture Tchaikovsky arranged by Mayhew Lake
An American in Paris by Gershwin arranged by John Krance
Capriccio Italien by Tschaikowsky arranged by Frank Winterbottom
Carmen arranged by V.F. Sagranek
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night by Elliot Del Borgo
Finale from the New World Symphony by Dvorak arranged by Erik Leidzen
Marche Slave by Tchaikovsky
Mass from La Fiesta Mexican
The Incredibles by Michael Giacchio arranged by Jay Bocook
Mars by Holst
William Tell Oveture by Rossini arranged by Erik Leidzen
Wizard of Oz by Harold Arlen arranged by James Barnes

Thanks in advance for any info, advice, etc. that may be provided.

 

[awholley]

For tenor, especially in an attempt to blend, I suggest the Houlik or Caravan mouthpiece.

http://jameshoulik.net/category/sax-shop/

or

https://shop.weinermusic.com/Caravan-Tenor-Sax-Mouthpiece/productinfo/MCT/

 

[nvilletele]

[self-deleted]

 

[turf3]

Well, first of all, the objective is not to "sound like yourself" but rather to sound like the standardized concert band tenor saxophone Platonic ideal.

Personally, as someone with a fairly bright cutting natural sound, I'd go with a Caravan mouthpiece, but if your tone naturally tends toward the dark, a Selmer Soloist would probably be a reasonable choice.

At least two generations of high school kids have done concert band using the Selmer S-80 mouthpiece, but I'm not a real big fan.

The Vandoren classical pieces would probably also be reasonable choices.

I'd go to Vandoren blue box 2.5s, for a starting point, myself.

 

[awholley]

Well, your signature line has good advice at least . . .

Haha! I had originally posted an alto-oriented response.

 

[LostConn]

In particular, any suggestions for a more appropriate mpc and reed? I showed up with my JJ DVNY 7 and Legere signature 2.25 and was met with comments re the jazz tone perhaps not fitting in so well. I now realize that all my Tenor pieces are so-called "jazz models" and I also found the Legere was not so great (for me) on pianissimo passages (maybe drop in strength to address? Go back to cane?) Now, I expect it may not be that big a deal to use a "jazz mouthpiece" in a concert band, and I'm certain there is a range of opinions on such matter, but I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of the SOTW mavens. I expect I will sound like myself no matter which mouthpiece I use, but still would probably be worthwhile trying out some new pieces. So let fly with any suggestions please.

I would use a relatively open classical tenor mouthpiece. In concert band, you have to be able to cope with quite varied dynamics. Projecting is a must, but so is playing cleanly at pp. I currently use a Vandoren Optimum TL5 when I play tenor in concert band (I do this occasionally over the years, though 1st alto is my regular part). I used to use a Vandoren V5 T20, which I sold to another member of the band, and she now plays it. The principal tenor player in the band plays a Selmer Soloist. Lots of other good options have just come out recently: Yanagisawa Classical, D'Addario Reserve for Tenor, and the Selmer Concept. The alto versions of all these mouthpieces are very good; I don't have personal experience with the tenor versions. I used to play a Selmer S80 C** on tenor, which I do not recommend.

An alternative to a classical piece might be an all-around mouthpiece like the Yanagisawa HR 5 that comes standard with Yany tenors (not to be confused with the new Yany classical mp). I have one of these if you don't.

The Legere Signature should work OK if you find the right strength. I use it on tenor. Maybe try a 2.0? But just having a smaller tip opening should help you play more quietly even with your current reed. Still, you'll probably need to experiment. I remember an incident many years ago when I was playing the Legere Classic on alto; I think this was before the Signature model had been introduced. The Classic is a stiff, thick-tipped reed, and I found that I simply could not articulate a low D at pp. I remember the exact piece we were playing: the first movement, "Gandalf," of Symphony No. 1, "Lord of the Rings," by Johan de Meij. So I switched to a Hemke cane reed, and all was well. Fortunately, synthetics are better now.

Your list of repertoire is challenging. There's no room to hide there! I'm familiar with a lot of it (see below), so feel free to ask questions about particular pieces if that would be helpful.

1812 Overture Tchaikovsky arranged by Mayhew Lake
An American in Paris by Gershwin arranged by John Krance PLAYED THE ORIGINAL VERSION
Capriccio Italien by Tschaikowsky arranged by Frank Winterbottom PLAYED IT
Carmen arranged by V.F. Sagranek PLAYED SOME VERSION OF THIS; MAYBE DIFFERENT ARR.
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night by Elliot Del Borgo
Finale from the New World Symphony by Dvorak arranged by Erik Leidzen
Marche Slave by Tchaikovsky PLAYED IT
Mass from La Fiesta Mexican
The Incredibles by Michael Giacchio arranged by Jay Bocook PLAYED IT
Mars by Holst PLAYED IT
William Tell Oveture by Rossini arranged by Erik Leidzen PLAYED IT
Wizard of Oz by Harold Arlen arranged by James Barnes

 

[nvilletele]

Well, first of all, the objective is not to "sound like yourself" but rather to sound like the standardized concert band tenor saxophone Platonic ideal.

Personally, as someone with a fairly bright cutting natural sound, I'd go with a Caravan mouthpiece, but if your tone naturally tends toward the dark, a Selmer Soloist would probably be a reasonable choice.

At least two generations of high school kids have done concert band using the Selmer S-80 mouthpiece, but I'm not a real big fan.

The Vandoren classical pieces would probably also be reasonable choices.

I'd go to Vandoren blue box 2.5s, for a starting point, myself.

Thank you for these suggestions. Much appreciated.
And, for the record, I wasn't intending to suggest that sounding like myself was an objective. It is, sadly, my current bane, in all playing situations . . . .

 

[click]

I am not familiar with your mpc.

However, I chose to get the Ronald Caravan tenor mpc for my concert band work.

https://caravanmouthpieces.com/ecc_cms/mouthpieces/tenor-saxophone-mouthpiece/

$144.50

Which I bought second hand for half that money.

What a wonderful mpc it is!

I had been forced by circumstances to sell my horn in college and stopped playing for over 30 yrs.

The Caravan did me a power of good getting back into playing.

I would also consider a Yamaha 5C or 6C. They should cost well under $100.

A top notch player can shape the tone with any mpc.

But it could be a lot of work.

It was easier for me to get one mpc for jazz and another for concert band.

A more neutral approach toward each gave desired results for each circumstance.

In addition, the more narrow tip opening of the suggested mpcs made it easier for me to play very softly, with a blending tone to fit in with the double reeds and low clarinets, especially on low register entrances.

 

[Dr G]

The Morgan Classical ("C" chamber) is also good. I prefer the 6C (0.090") for classical ensembles (quartet and band).

 

[Scott E]

You're definitely going to need a different mouthpiece to tame that Yamaha with the V1 neck. Regarding mouthpiece selection, I have to mention that I had a tried the Caravan mouthpiece on my Yamaha YBS62 and I found that it played quite flat. I was able to nearly bring it in tune by pushing the mouthpiece all the way in, but it not a great match with the modern Yamaha saxophone. I couldn't say whether this would be an issue with your YTS82Z. The Caravan will give you the darkest tone you can get and definitely will give you a very different sound than the other pieces mentioned.

I can say that I have had a great experience using a Selmer Concept tenor mouthpiece with my YTS875EX in wind ensemble. No one talks about the Concept tenor mouthpiece and it isn't widely sold, but it's certainly provides the neutral to dark tone needed for wind ensemble tenor and projects very well. espite the very small tip opening, it's easy to play the range of the instrument with volume when needed.

With regard to reed selection, I've had great results with Vandoren blue box reeds using the Concept mouthpiece. With regard to strength, I would imagine a size 2 would allow you to play the range of the instrument with the Concept (recall that the Vandoren blue box reeds are about 1/2 strength harder than the typical reed, so you want to go down a 1/2 strength).

Regarding the Selmer S80, I think it's a great mouthpiece and certainly the standard piece for the situation your in (though in your case perhaps in a D size rather than C* if you're coming from the Jody Jazz).

I also tried the Vandoren Optimum line and I thought these pieces were similar to the S80 and projected less and had much less volume. My Yamaha tenor came with the Yamaha 4CM mouthpiece, which was useless to me; it had no projection or volume.

Lastly, with regard to tenor in wind ensemble, take the time to learn the music at a slow tempo. The pieces you're playing have plenty of runs and syncopation that might not be with the altos and bari.

 

[nvilletele]

Thanks to all for the many great suggestions. Still thinking over what mpc to get.

I’ve elsewhere seen mention of the selmer metal classic mouthpiece, the only metal mouthpiece I’ve seen as recommended for classical. I’ve read up on it in the archives, but wonder what thoughts the current SOTW crowd may have on that model. Anybody have any thoughts on the selmer metal classic?

(I’ve developed a preference for slimmer profile pieces and rarely play HR anymore.)

 

[click]

Thanks to all for the many great suggestions. Still thinking over what mpc to get.

I've elsewhere seen mention of the selmer metal classic mouthpiece, the only metal mouthpiece I've seen as recommended for classical. I've read up on it in the archives, but wonder what thoughts the current SOTW crowd may have on that model. Anybody have any thoughts on the selmer metal classic?

(I've developed a preference for slimmer profile pieces and rarely play HR anymore.)

I did NOT like the tenor one.

But any larger chamber, lower metal should work just fine.

Try the STM (5-ish tip).

It is the shape, not the materials, so do not worry about that.

 

[Bjroosevelt]

Lots of traffic on this thread.

1) You definitely need a classical mouthpiece. In my several years of experience in concert band, I recall being asked to play louder once. For the majority of the time, I find that I have to manage my loudness, as a tenor can really be a loud beast compared to either the bass clarinet on one side or the Alto on the other, or the flutes in front. (Though it seems that no matter how hard I try, I can’t play loud enough to cover up the Bassoon). I wouldn’t be too concerned about getting a mouthpiece that can play really loudly, but pianissimo is critical in concert band. I could never get a 110 tip with a 2.5 strength reed to play quietly and consistently enough for the sustained passage with low B, Bb, C Db and D.
2). A few months ago I got a Selmer Concept for my Mark VII. First day with it at band, I got lots of compliments on how much better I sounded. I did like it better than the S-80. I think it is a fantastic mouthpiece.....but mouthpiece selection can be quite personal.
3). Lost Conn referenced that you might want to try a TL-5. I have a lightly used one that I posted on the forum here for sale a few months back. It is still on the market. If interested, you can check out the listing.

 

[nvilletele]

I ended up ordering the Selmer Metal Classic in C** from Weiner Music, the only place around I could find that still has this piece in stock. It seems this model, which I think started in 1955, may be now out of production.

They didn’t have the C** that appeared on their website, so I settled for a C*. Seeemed a better bet than the E (they didn’t have any D listed).

So it arrived yesterday, the same time my teacher shows up for a lesson. We both found the tone of this mouthpiece to be great. Just beautiful. I could try to describe all the aspects of the tone using terms like focused or spread or this or that but what the heck do I really know about such things? (Not much). Well, it was rich and dark and full, if that makes any sense.

My only issue is that with (for me) a smaller opening than I am used to, the reed would sometimes seal so maybe will try a stronger reed. Probably would have preferred the C** they didn’t have any more of. I’m also going to try cane reeds again and see how they work.

So far I’ve been to two sessions of the concert band. So far, so good.

I will likely also pick up one of the suggested HR pieces to have another option.

But so far I am really loving the Selmer Metal Classic.

 

[click]

I ended up ordering the Selmer Metal Classic in C** from Weiner Music, the only place around I could find that still has this piece in stock. It seems this model, which I think started in 1955, may be now out of production.

They didn't have the C** that appeared on their website, so I settled for a C*. Seeemed a better bet than the E (they didn't have any D listed).

So it arrived yesterday, the same time my teacher shows up for a lesson. We both found the tone of this mouthpiece to be great. Just beautiful. I could try to describe all the aspects of the tone using terms like focused or spread or this or that but what the heck do I really know about such things? (Not much). Well, it was rich and dark and full, if that makes any sense.

My only issue is that with (for me) a smaller opening than I am used to, the reed would sometimes seal so maybe will try a stronger reed. Probably would have preferred the C** they didn't have any more of. I'm also going to try cane reeds again and see how they work.

So far I've been to two sessions of the concert band. So far, so good.

I will likely also pick up a one of suggested HR pieces to have another option.

But so far I am really loving the Selmer Metal Classic.

This is good news!

With practice, some people make pretty soft reeds work on narrow tips.

But I found it easier to use slightly harder reeds on really narrow tips.

 

[StanVI]

I have written, and am very thankful for the responses I received, about my first try joining a community jazz band here: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...or-Late-Bloomer-joining-first-real-Jazz-Band/

.

For the spring semester, I decided to try the concert band this time around (same band director). Went to my first class this week. So far, so good (well, there was a lot of ghosting, as I hadn't seen any of the music before the class).

Which school/director?

 

[JoAnnPeeler]

Though it seems that no matter how hard I try, I can't play loud enough to cover up the Bassoon.

That's what everyone always said when I was trying to learn Bassoon. I switched to clarinet instead. Everyone was much happier.

 

[nvilletele]

Which school/director?

It's the same school and director as the jazz band that I had discussed before. It's through the San Diego Community College Continuing Education Program. Jazz band met at Mesa College but the Concert Band meets at a place in Claremont Mesa. A number of folk from the jazz band are also in the concert band. (I certainly couldn't handle being in both at the same time.)