[Mando]

I’m only 3 months into learning alto, but I could not resist trying out a tenor. I thought the big adjustment would be the greater distance between keys. Boy, was I wrong! I currently use 1 1/2 and 2 strength reeds on the alto, and can generally manage the normal notes in the alto’s range. The softest reed I have for the tenor is a 2, and I literally have a hard time blowing 3 or 4 middle-range notes — never mind low D and C. I’ve ordered some 1 1/2 reeds for the tenor. My ability to make music on the tenor is SO questionable that I’m dubious that the 1 1/2s will put everything right! When I first started alto, I used #3 reeds, until this helpful site set me straight. But blowing this tenor with #2 reed is MUCH harder and less musical that what I was doing on Day 1 with my alto and the #3 reeds. The mouthpiece feels huge in my mouth and I imagine I have lots to adjust about my embrochure. The tenor itself was assessed as entirely playable by a tech, so the horn isn’t the problem. Not sure if I’m just wailing, or asking for help, but any advice is welcome. The mouthpiece that came with the sax is, I think, a very ordinary student mouthpiece to go with the student sax. I assume it parallels my Yamaha 23 alto and its plastic Yamaha mouthpiece. Thoughts?

 

[fudidudi]

The tenor is a completely different instrument in terms of voice and feel, in my opinion. I also started learning on alto, about 40 years ago, and had several false starts playing tenor before I got comfortable on it. Nowadays I favor the tenor, and find it inspiring and fun.

It’s not easy to say what your problem is, but I would recommend that you get someone with some experience, maybe a sax teacher, to take a look and tell you what you’re doing. A general advice would be to avoid any tension in your mouth (including biting) and your throat. Some people like to talk about using “warm air” (aah) rather than “cold air” (phew).

First and foremost, though, I would recommend that you stick with one horn for a while to build strength and technique, in order to establish a good foundation for switching it up. It’s not necessarily hurtful per se to swap saxes as early as you do now - it can even give you some insights into stuff you need to adjust or change. I’d just give it some time.

If you think you prefer the tenor, not everybody has to learn on alto as their first sax, so you’re “allowed” to consider switching. Then stick with it for a bit to “git gud”.

 

[Reet McVouty]

It's not just your reed, you need to adjust your embouchure as well. What kind of mouthpiece are you using? Chamber? Baffle? Tip opening? There are a lot of factors that go into playing the saxophone. Do you have a qualified teacher? You need a teacher that plays saxophone.

 

[milandro]

Thoughts?

Since you are not the first member to do this, I thought that you may benefit from reading and learning from previous threads witten over the years when people did precisely what you seek to do.

I will search for you among the identical threads present in the archives of the forum , the archives are the most precious resource on line on anything to do with saxophones, adding to them is only keeping information in place for other to be found next time someone, like you, seeks information on moving from alto to tenor.

Happy reading (and maybe adding) this is what you can expect.... (there are even more!)

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?34914-From-alto-to-tenor
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?15181-Switching-from-alto-to-tenor-best-way-to-proceed
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?61344-Switching-from-tenor-to-alto
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?10204-Tenor-transition-from-alto
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...om-Alto-saxophone-to-Tenor-saxophone-any-tips
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...switch-to-Tenor-Saxophone-from-Alto-Saxophone
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?345344-alto-to-tenor-transition-questions
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?244341-Switching-from-alto-to-tenor

 

[1saxman]

I think the most likely answer is the mouthpiece you have is not well made or is too big of a facing. Since it came with the sax, which I presume was new, chances are high that its not too big. If it just happened to be with a used sax you got, all bets are off as it could be anything or 'worked-on' by anybody. I would suggest another modest expenditure to get you started right on the tenor, which should be no harder to play than any other sax - that is, to get a new mouthpiece, a #3 or 'C' (Selmer). I think you will be able to find a number of candidates for not much more than a box of reeds costs.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I think the most likely answer is the mouthpiece you have is not well made or is too big of a facing. Since it came with the sax, which I presume was new, chances are high that its not too big. If it just happened to be with a used sax you got, all bets are off as it could be anything or 'worked-on' by anybody. I would suggest another modest expenditure to get you started right on the tenor, which should be no harder to play than any other sax - that is, to get a new mouthpiece, a #3 or 'C' (Selmer). I think you will be able to find a number of candidates for not much more than a box of reeds costs.

I agree with this.

To anser the question moving from alto to tenor - what to expect? My answer is to expect that your alto playing improves.

That was my experience, which is why I'm siding with people who say to look to the mouthpiece and whther it's suitable.

Also make sure the tenor is not leaking of course

 

[lostcircuits]

I think the most likely answer is the mouthpiece you have is not well made or is too big of a facing. Since it came with the sax, which I presume was new, chances are high that its not too big. If it just happened to be with a used sax you got, all bets are off as it could be anything or 'worked-on' by anybody. I would suggest another modest expenditure to get you started right on the tenor, which should be no harder to play than any other sax - that is, to get a new mouthpiece, a #3 or 'C' (Selmer). I think you will be able to find a number of candidates for not much more than a box of reeds costs.

Exactly, a new Yamaha 4C sells for around $25.- on Amazon or WWBW but (OP) you can save yourself some headaches by just going to the local music store (if available during these times) and try a few pieces, even if you end up paying a bit of a premium. And don't let any "clearance" tags lure you into buying something that is not suitable for your level.

 

[JL]

+1 to looking at whether or not you need a different mpc. That could certainly be the issue.

However, how many of those #2 reeds did you try? If you only tried one or two reeds, it could just be that you have a dud reed (they exist!). When trying out reeds be sure to get a box so you can try more than one. Even the best reeds are inconsistent.

Beyond the equipment, tenor takes more air and a bit looser embouchure than alto, so give it some time.

 

[Mando]

Thanks for all this support and advice. I don’t “need” the support, but I’ll take it. And I need the advice! To add to the list of potential problems (all of them likely contributing to the collective effect), I realized I’m working with a brand new reed. Even my limited experience on alto has taught me that reeds play differently when they are broken in. As for the mouthpiece, it is an Armstrong Special, and most likely the original mp that came with the horn, which is an Armstrong somewhere between 20 and 40 years old (made in Elkhardt Indiana). I assume it would have been of a configuration appropriate to a beginner, just as the Yamaha YAS-23 came with a Yamaha 4C mp. Maybe that’s not true. When I look at how far the reed tip is above the mp itself, maybe the mp wasn’t the original “student” level mp I’ve imagined. I’ll keep messing about with all these suggestions in mind, working on breaking in the reed, altering my embrochure, and thinking about how I can modify the sound that comes out. Of course, it is too easy to just put down the tenor and pick up the alto for more immediate gratification! Many thanks for your assistance!

 

[Mando]

BINGO! It’s primarily a mouthpiece issue! When I bought this tenor, the seller said it included an Armstrong Special mouthpiece and another unmarked mp with a chip out of it. Wishing to avoid whatever variable a chip out of a mp might add, I put on the unchipped Armstrong Special. But the good advice on this site caused me to go back and look at the two mps under good light and through a magnifying glass. Turns out, they are BOTH Armstrong Special mp, but the unchipped one I had been using has “5 (image of a star) R” on it, while the chipped one has “4 (image of a star)” on it. So I played with the chipped 4star mouthpiece and it sounded like what I might have expected after playing an alto for 3 months! I had also soaked the reed longer and it was inevitably getting more broken in, but I’m sure the 5R mp was the source of my troubles. Anyone know what the “R” refers to? BTW, I play Yamaha 6C mp on my alto. Now I can concern myself with all the other great advice you’ve given me.

 

[JL]

BINGO! It's primarily a mouthpiece issue!

Turns out, they are BOTH Armstrong Special mp, but the unchipped one I had been using has "5 (image of a star) R" on it, while the chipped one has "4 (image of a star)" on it.

I'm sure the 5R mp was the source of my troubles. Anyone know what the "R" refers to?

Looks like you are honing in on the problem, so that's a good thing. I'm not familiar with Armstrong mpcs, but I can tell you that a 4* has a smaller tip opening than a 5*, so that might be why you are preferring the 4*. It's not a huge difference in tip size, so there may be something else going on with the two different mpcs. I don't know what "R" refers to; I would guess it could mean 'rollover baffle', but I really don't know (someone on here will likely know).

One other thing that I mentioned earlier. You keep referring to the reed; does that mean you are only using one specific new reed? Hopefully you have a box of reeds and if so, I'd suggest trying several of them and see if you can find a better reed. That could be a significant part of the problem as well as the mpc.

Beyond all of that, stick with it. You'll adjust to the tenor eventually (and be glad you did!).

 

[notes_norton]

I would have guessed mouthpiece first, but you already got that cleared up.

I started on Tenor and then added Alto and Soprano. I think it might be easier to go from large to small, but that's only a guess.

What I found out is that you shouldn't play the same way on both. They express themselves differently. I never realized this because I am a bit of a "let the horn play me" person, but many years ago I went to hear a jazz concert featuring Dave Brubeck (I told you it was long ago).

The warm up band was some smooth -jazz act. They were enjoyable and the sax player played tenor, alto and soprano. My band mates told me that he played all three saxes the same way and I played each one differently. I never noticed that, but have since.

Explore what the new horn does and doesn't do and adapt your playing to the horn. In other words, let the horn play you.

And don't worry about reed strength just yet. The reed strength is determined by the design of the mouthpiece. In general, bigger tip openings require softer reeds.

Notes

 

[lostcircuits]

BINGO! It's primarily a mouthpiece issue! When I bought this tenor, the seller said it included an Armstrong Special mouthpiece and another unmarked mp with a chip out of it. Wishing to avoid whatever variable a chip out of a mp might add, I put on the unchipped Armstrong Special. But the good advice on this site caused me to go back and look at the two mps under good light and through a magnifying glass. Turns out, they are BOTH Armstrong Special mp, but the unchipped one I had been using has "5 (image of a star) R" on it, while the chipped one has "4 (image of a star)" on it. So I played with the chipped 4star mouthpiece and it sounded like what I might have expected after playing an alto for 3 months! I had also soaked the reed longer and it was inevitably getting more broken in, but I'm sure the 5R mp was the source of my troubles. Anyone know what the "R" refers to? BTW, I play Yamaha 6C mp on my alto. Now I can concern myself with all the other great advice you've given me.

Rubber?

 

[lydian]

Rubber?

No. Here's what the letters mean:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...uf-Mouthpieces&p=507422&viewfull=1#post507422

 

[allenlowe]

if you drop it on your foot it will hurt a lot more.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I agree with this.

To anser the question moving from alto to tenor - what to expect? My answer is to expect that your alto playing improves.

That was my experience, which is why I'm siding with people who say to look to the mouthpiece and whther it's suitable.

Also make sure the tenor is not leaking of course

I have the opposite happen. When I play alto I play better s,t,b

 

[lostcircuits]

No. Here's what the letters mean:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...uf-Mouthpieces&p=507422&viewfull=1#post507422

Cool, thanks!!!

 

[Mando]

No. Here's what the letters mean:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...uf-Mouthpieces&p=507422&viewfull=1#post507422

Many thanks! I'm quite sure this particular piece of information won't improve my playing, but it satisfies the curious mind of a retired academic!

 

[Mando]

Looks like you are honing in on the problem, so that's a good thing. I'm not familiar with Armstrong mpcs, but I can tell you that a 4* has a smaller tip opening than a 5*, so that might be why you are preferring the 4*. It's not a huge difference in tip size, so there may be something else going on with the two different mpcs. I don't know what "R" refers to; I would guess it could mean 'rollover baffle', but I really don't know (someone on here will likely know).

One other thing that I mentioned earlier. You keep referring to the reed; does that mean you are only using one specific new reed? Hopefully you have a box of reeds and if so, I'd suggest trying several of them and see if you can find a better reed. That could be a significant part of the problem as well as the mpc.

Beyond all of that, stick with it. You'll adjust to the tenor eventually (and be glad you did!).

Yes, I now have several #1 1/2 reeds in rotation, much as I've had for my alto on the great advice of this site. Thanks to you (and others) for directing my attention to the mouthpiece.

 

[saxoclese]

It is hard to imagine that at 3 months anyone would have a well developed embouchure, tone production skills, and tonal concept. "Experimenting" with a different size instrument before building a solid foundation on the first one can only push the mastery of either one farther away. My recommendation after 32 years of teaching saxophone would be to focus on the one you like the best and save being a "doubler" on different saxophones for later down the road when you have a good feel for and command of the one you started on.