[bergman7]

What do you think of this theory? I feel as though mouthpieces that have some flaws in them, (ones that aren't necessarily faced perfectly,) have so much more characteristics to them and are much more expressive. Perfectly faced mouthpieces sometimes sound so "sterile." What do you think? A horn repair man told me a story of a famous refacer that once had access to Ben Webster's MP. He wanted to take measurements and pictures for historical purposes. No sooner did he find out that Ben's "famous" MP was one of the worst pieces of sh#% he ever found! The facing was beyond off and would seem to most guys unplayable! Just goes to show you...

 

[hakukani]

There's so many 'flaws' already in reeds, I don't think that it makes a difference. A good player can play through many flaws, leaks, and downright crappy horns. It's a pleasure to play a great, well set up horn, with a stellar mouthpiece and that good reed. I had a good reed in 1978, so I know.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I had a good reed in 1978, so I know.

Not possible, I had the good reed of '78.

This whole idea of flawed vs flawless mouthpieces is quite interesting though.I recently saw a thread in which some people were saying a mouthpiece that fails a vacuum test cannot be a good mouthpiece. Very often I find that irrelevant. A good mouthpiece can fail and a bad one can pass, the only meaningful test is to play it it.

As for individuality, that's an odd one. I don't want an individual mouthpiece, I want one that lets me provide the individuality.

 

[BOPITY FUNK]

No wonder I could'nt find a good reed back in '78--you guy's had'em.

 

[gary]

78s are records!

 

[nachoman]

Reminds me of a theory Brian Eno once came up with about guitarists- putting forward Django Reinhardt and Hendrix as the most innovative guitarists of the 20th century- why, aside from their innate talent/genius? Both were doing it wrong- Hendrix played a right handed guitar left handed (thereby making the dials more prominent) and Reinhardt had severe damage to his hand, forcing him to re invent his chord technique.....

 

[unbalancedaction]

That's a very good point, especially considering the fact that not all embouchures are created equally.

Great, precise mouthpieces (regardless of design) tend to work best with people with a low pressure embouchure (ala Joe Allard). Also, precise mouthpieces work better with the majority of reeds. I once had a great Soloist for alto, but 1/10 reeds worked on it (and they HAD to be Alexander Superials)... Needless to say, I had an expensive reed habit on that piece. I ended up moving to a Soloist with great finish work, but I had to change reed brand/strength. The end result was that 9/10 reeds worked, and I went down to WAY cheaper reeds (with better results).

Many people forget to realize that you are playing the REED!!! One of my biggest mentors once said this quote:

"I can give you a $15,000 SBA tenor, $1,500 vintage Link, and a $300 ligature - and you won't sound like anything til I give you a reed"

My bottom line, is that precision is required on a mouthpiece in order to allow uniformity from bottom to top (not in tone, but in response). Even though some pieces still play well (regardless of flaws), a mouthpiece with precise craftsmanship is always preferred.

 

[10mfan]

In order of importance, perhaps...

reed
mouthpiece
neck
horn

 

[Sigmund451]

I dont think well made mouthpieces are sterile. I think some peoples way of interpreting a mouthpiece is dull and sterile.

A mouthpiece is more than just a group of numbers. The maker/finisher leaves his or her mark after play testing and adjusting the piece for both proper behavior as well as tone. There is a great deal of work done on a mouthpiece that is not measured by gauges. It is intuitive and personal. This work makes or breaks a technically correct piece.

 

[Sigmund451]

This thread is in the wrong place. I just noticed as you cant edit. This is the Marketplace.

 

[Tony aiello]

All great points made, however, the more the player demands from the equipment ( playing in all registers proficiently etc...) the more the player will appreciate near perfection in his or her equipment . If you are an on the staff kinda player, any Mouthpiece will do!! When you play the entire horn using dynamics and varying articulations, ( sub tone, full tone etc..) I feel that you will be limited by not so perfect equipment! And thats all I have to say about that!!!!

 

[Nefertiti]

I think over the years I have found that mouthpieces with a good resistance give it a tone and sound I can play with. Many times a crooked or uneven facing can give you this kind of resistance which can be a good thing. I've played a number of mouthpiece that had amazing tones but were incredibly reed picky. It was a nightmare to try to find a reed but when you found one it smoked. I find that sterile sound in mouthpieces that are too free blowing. I know that is advertised as a good thing but many times I don't like a piece that is like that. I don't find it as expressive as a piece with a nice resistance to it.

 

[bergman7]

I think some of you may have mis-understood me. I aggree with Nefertifi. I was basically referring to free blowing mouthpieces. For instance, I tried today for the hell of it 2 Jumbo Java's (T55 &T75/) There seemed to be no character in them. Just a bland-loud sound. I went back to my TRIED AND TRUE HR berg 115/2 and it was amazing how much more thicker it was and beautiful. Maybe it's the resistance?

 

[daigle65]

You don't need a flawed mouthpiece in order to have some resistance.
A larger chamber, a lower baffle will give you that.

 

[unbalancedaction]

I think some of you may have mis-understood me. I aggree with Nefertifi. I was basically referring to free blowing mouthpieces. For instance, I tried today for the hell of it 2 Jumbo Java's (T55 &T75/) There seemed to be no character in them. Just a bland-loud sound. I went back to my TRIED AND TRUE HR berg 115/2 and it was amazing how much more thicker it was and beautiful. Maybe it's the resistance?

That's like comparing apples with oranges, and saying they taste different because one is rounder than the other...

The Vandoren has a small chamber, and a crazy high/long baffle - the Berg, has a medium/large chamber with a bullet baffle... It's also the player playing it (check out Ralph Bowen playing one of those pieces)... Vandorens aren't "perfect" facing-wise either - so that also shoots that assumption down as well.

 

[Sigmund451]

UnB is correct. While Vandoren does make a pretty good out of the box piece they are far from perfect. The tables are not flat. The facings are off and sometimes the baffles could be made a little better. In their price range they are ahead of the game compared to other machine made pieces but they are not ultra precise.

 

[Stan]

In order of importance, perhaps...

reed
mouthpiece
neck
horn

Player first

Stan

 

[10mfan]

I respectfully disagree, my friend...

Put a great player with a totally broken, worn out reed on a mint sba with a great neck, and a great slant sig mouthpiece----and what do ya got?---A LOUSY SOUND.

REEDS make the sound happen. Without them, there isnt a sound at all.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Player first

Player's wife/girlfriend first.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I respectfully disagree, my friend...

Put a great player with a totally broken, worn out reed on a mint sba with a great neck, and a great slant sig mouthpiece----and what do ya got?---A LOUSY SOUND.

But that applies to any part of the setup. If it's broken, the sound is lousy.

I think Stan's point is a good one, but with the caveat everything is in good working order (including the player).