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Discussion Starter #1
Hi people... lately i've been asking a lot why my mouthpiece position on cork was so out... i didn't get it, my embouchure is very good, my reeds are soft, i really wasn't understanding what was happening... i starter trying my old mouthpieces... and at A 440Hz they place in the cork is really really in (just left like 0,5cm maybe 1cm tops..) .... so i noticed the diference between that 2 old mpc and my new is the shank... my shank length is very smaller (otto link new vintage) than the others (berg larsen grained ebonite and a metal claude lakey) they all are the same tip opening...

so my question is...where is more or less yours otto link rubber position on the cork to get on tone? post pics if you can... thanks
 

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Yeah, it's all variable, also factoring in how each individual blows and their uniquely shaped oral cavity. The fact that mouthpieces are shaped differently and have shanks with differing lengths, this alone sort of makes the idea of one true pitch coming from the mouthpiece pedagogy utter nonsense. If your horn is in tune and plays well for you, I wouldn't worry so much about where your mouthpiece sits on the cork.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks to both i want to both of you. I do not want to give to much importance to this, but knowing if the position of the mpc is wrong may be a sign that something else - more important - is wrong...like embouchure of anything such important as that...
 

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Yeah, it's all variable, also factoring in how each individual blows and their uniquely shaped oral cavity. The fact that mouthpieces are shaped differently and have shanks with differing lengths, this alone sort of makes the idea of one true pitch coming from the mouthpiece pedagogy utter nonsense. If your horn is in tune and plays well for you, I wouldn't worry so much about where your mouthpiece sits on the cork.
The "mouthpiece pitch" concept has to do with finding the embouchure pressure against the reed that works in a given style of music. There is no "one true pitch" that everyone must match in this "pedagogy". Instead there is a general pitch that the player should not go above. For example on the alto sax the suggested target pitch is an A=880. On classical mouthpieces which tend to be more consistent in shank length and chamber volumes, setting the embouchure to play close to this pitch, but no higher gives an optimum embouchure setting for most players.

When the object is to produce a more characteristic "jazz" or "pop" saxophone tone, the player's embouchure will often be set to play the mouthpiece pitch a step, or a step and a half lower than the "suggested" classical pitch. This results in the mouthpiece being pushed farther onto the cork to bring the saxophone up to pitch. Again, the important idea is that the mouthpiece pitch can be lower, but should never go above the suggested target pitch.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The "mouthpiece pitch" concept has to do with finding the embouchure pressure against the reed that works in a given style of music. There is no "one true pitch" that everyone must match in this "pedagogy". Instead there is a general pitch that the player should not go above. For example on the alto sax the suggested target pitch is an A=880. On classical mouthpieces which tend to be more consistent in shank length and chamber volumes, setting the embouchure to play close to this pitch, but no higher gives an optimum embouchure setting for most players.

When the object is to produce a more characteristic "jazz" or "pop" saxophone tone, the player's embouchure will often be set to play the mouthpiece pitch a step, or a step and a half lower than the "suggested" classical pitch. This results in the mouthpiece being pushed farther onto the cork to bring the saxophone up to pitch. Again, the important idea is that the mouthpiece pitch can be lower, but should never go above the suggested target pitch.

thanks jbtsax, but you are missing the point, i'm not asking about the mpc pitch... i know that should not go more than a concert G... i warm what always with just the mpc... and i know my pitch mpc is naturally a E/F concert down that G...
but i'm talking about the position on cork and what is best for that relation with the horn intonation.. (i also read and workedout the B low article of Steve Duke)
 

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interestingly, I shove a new vintage stm almost all the way down the cork; yet, substantially similar appearing large chambered/low baffle designs with same tip opening, table length and overall length have to be pulled out quite a bit. So, I just stopped looking at them and put on where they need to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
interestingly, I shove a new vintage stm almost all the way down the cork; yet, substantially similar appearing large chambered/low baffle designs with same tip opening, table length and overall length have to be pulled out quite a bit. So, I just stopped looking at them and put on where they need to go.
what do you mean with quite a bit? send a pic :bluewink:
 

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thanks jbtsax, but you are missing the point, i'm not asking about the mpc pitch... i know that should not go more than a concert G... i warm what always with just the mpc... and i know my pitch mpc is naturally a E/F concert down that G...
but i'm talking about the position on cork and what is best for that relation with the horn intonation.. (i also read and workedout the B low article of Steve Duke)
Actually I was responding to the idea that the use of mouthpiece pitch in saxophone pedagogy is utter nonsense. We know from the writing of the acoustic scientists who study woodwind acoustics that the saxophone plays the best in tune at A=440 and in tune with itself when the "equivalent volume" of the mouthpiece closely matches that of the missing cone.

The physical volume inside the mouthpiece, the strength of the reed, the amount of mouthpiece the player puts inside the mouth, the tightness of the embouchure, the temperature of the air and the size of the player's oral cavity combined will determine the optimum placement of the mouthpiece shank on the cork. As others have said it will be different for different individuals even when playing on the same mouthpiece and reed on the same saxophone.

I like to set the mouthpiece so that low F# and F# an octave higher are in tune with the tuner and with each other and then the F#2 played with the low B fingering without the octave key also matches that pitch. That seems to be the best mouthpiece position for me on all of my saxes.
 

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Another "duh" variable is the length of the cork! Selmer Reference alto necks seem to have very short corks so it may appear one who plays one is pushed in very far.

Another variable is the reed strength. I need to pull out a bit more when the reed is harder.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Another "duh" variable is the length of the cork! Selmer Reference alto necks seem to have very short corks so it may appear one who plays one is pushed in very far.

Another variable is the reed strength. I need to pull out a bit more when the reed is harder.
That variable is too "duh" to be in question, thats why the comparison i've made has been on the same cork with 3 mpcs, and on 2 horns... same result..
The pull out hard reed also is very simple, that's why i've used the same reed, in the same open tips, and same kind of mpc...
 

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thanks to both... I do not want to give to much importance to this, but knowing if the position of the mpc is wrong may be a sign that something else - more important - is wrong...like embouchure of anything such important as that...
Glad to be of service. Oftentimes folks will read opinions here that will cause them to think that they have a problem, when such is not the case. You just have to recognize when folks are spouting outdated dogma or some far fetched theory that's in opposition to the reality many of us have come to realize, understanding the variety of differing styles of play and how to adapt to same. I've made do with certain horn/mouthpiece combinations and have had mouthpieces pushed in as far as they can go, and sometimes they're dangling at the edge of the neck cork. Obviously, there are many variables involved, but it's the end result that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Glad to be of service. Oftentimes folks will read opinions here that will cause them to think that they have a problem, when such is not the case. You just have to recognize when folks are spouting outdated dogma or some far fetched theory that's in opposition to the reality many of us have come to realize, understanding the variety of differing styles of play and how to adapt to same. I've made do with certain horn/mouthpiece combinations and have had mouthpieces pushed in as far as they can go, and sometimes they're dangling at the edge of the neck cork. Obviously, there are many variables involved, but it's the end result that matters.
grumps your post has been amazing. Knowing that it happens frequently just by switching mpc also on the more advanced players than I means that i'm really making it to much of a deal... everything is ok than... is just because all the best players i see playing use the mpc in almost always the same place (of course minor adjustments) but also all of them use longer shank mpc's...
Despite all variables, I think i will get over this.
Thank you all.

More information, i will be listening.
 

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Hi people... lately i've been asking a lot why my mouthpiece position on cork was so out... i didn't get it, my embouchure is very good, my reeds are soft, i really wasn't understanding what was happening... i starter trying my old mouthpieces... and at A 440Hz they place in the cork is really really in (just left like 0,5cm maybe 1cm tops..) .... so i noticed the diference between that 2 old mpc and my new is the shank... my shank length is very smaller (otto link new vintage) than the others (berg larsen grained ebonite and a metal claude lakey) they all are the same tip opening...

so my question is...where is more or less yours otto link rubber position on the cork to get on tone? post pics if you can... thanks
The best position is when the horn plays from top to bottom in tune with itself. Overblow low B so that middle B, the first harmonic sounds. This B should be the same pitch as the B using the regular B fingering. That's the correct position for the mouthpiece. It works for me with any mouthpiece.
 

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Except... what if it is in tune with itself but 1/4 tone sharp or flat compared to others in the group (who are at A=440)?
 

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Except... what if it is in tune with itself but 1/4 tone sharp or flat compared to others in the group (who are at A=440)?
My thoughts exactly. For some folks, it's all about themselves, eh? :bluewink:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Except... what if it is in tune with itself but 1/4 tone sharp or flat compared to others in the group (who are at A=440)?
are you talking about the others no being in tune?..eheh
in that case we need to be all in the same "not in tune" Hz...xD
 

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Discussion Starter #18
another thing someone called my attention is that i could be closing the throat to much when playing... i do feel if i try to open more that the sound vibrate more and get fatter...the intonation drop very much... could it be really important, i'm mean, i daily do overtones and other exercises, coul i still be closing the throat to much? but why is this more obvious in this mpc?
 
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