[kreacher]

Hello,

Yesterday my group had a performance during the day and occasionally one sax player comes to sub when necessary. We were talking and he mentions he needs to replace his Vandoren mpc because it's 5 years old and therefore the inside is becoming worn and not playing has good has it did.

We discussed it, with me telling I have never heard such a thing, and that it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, the beak, sure, the top of the mpc if you don't wear a patch, even the bore, because they are all subjected to mechanical and friction forces. But the throat and chamber? It's just air passing through, maybe a little wear from acidity or something in your breath, but that would be minimal or the mpc would be made of something that reacted...

He even went further saying that mouthpieces are made that way, so people buy more and it's probably because of materials used this days and what not, because I told him, if that was the case, then no one would be buying vintage mpcs for up to 2000$. I asked him who had told him that, and he answered that "everyone" says that and thinks that (well, maybe in his circle of fellow students, teachers and players). I mean, he is a music university student, so I wonder what they are teaching them there?

 

[Canadiain]

Smells like BS to me.

 

[Dr G]

Sad to hear that unquestioned conspiracy theory is alive and well in the university environment. Whatever happened to critical thinking?

Hello,

Yesterday my group had a performance during the day and occasionally one sax player comes to sub when necessary. We were talking and he mentions he needs to replace his Vandoren mpc because it's 5 years old and therefore the inside is becoming worn and not playing has good has it did.

We discussed it, with me telling I have never heard such a thing, and that it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, the beak, sure, the top of the mpc if you don't wear a patch, even the bore, because they are all subjected to mechanical and friction forces. But the throat and chamber? It's just air passing through, maybe a little wear from acidity or something in your breath, but that would be minimal or the mpc would be made of something that reacted...

He even went further saying that mouthpieces are made that way, so people buy more and it's probably because of materials used this days and what not, because I told him, if that was the case, then no one would be buying vintage mpcs for up to 2000$. I asked him who had told him that, and he answered that "everyone" says that and thinks that (well, maybe in his circle of fellow students, teachers and players). I mean, he is a music university student, so I wonder what they are teaching them there?

 

[10mfan]

Oh boy......

 

[Canadiain]

Sad to hear that unquestioned conspiracy theory is alive and well in the university environment. Whatever happened to critical thinking?

To be fair, hes just a music student, not an engineering student

I'll fetch my coat...

 

[bandmommy]

Um.... bull💩
Tell him that he has to get all of his teeth pulled at 30 and get dentures, because the enamel is starting to get worn off. 😉

 

[Grumps]

Oh, I've seen plenty of mouthpieces with wear inside. Generally it's from cleaning them with wire brushes.

 

[bruce bailey]

Tell him to play softer thus keeping ff notes from blowing the insides out of the mouthpiece. Same logic.

 

[lostcircuits]

Maybe he needs to switch to a reed instead of sticking his tongue all the way inside the chamber. Or maybe it is one of those:

 

[JL]

I guess the point has been made with the erudite comments so far, but I'll sing with the chorus and agree it is total BS to say a mpc wears out in 5 years. If what that guy says is true it does make me wonder why all those 40 - 50+ year old vintage mpcs go for huge sums when they are certainly completely worn out and don't play worth a damn anymore!

 

[Rackety Sax]

Is this the same notion as wood clarinets blowing out over time, because this one has some serious currency.

 

[jgreiner]

There isn't a facepalm big enough....

 

[bandmommy]

There isn't a facepalm big enough....

I rolled my eyes so hard I saw my brain. 😜

 

[jgreiner]

I rolled my eyes so hard I saw my brain. 😜

LMFAO! That's probably because you slapped your forehead so hard, it rolled your eyes 360 degrees. Haha!

 

[Arundo Donax]

Long ago I bought a nylon brush to clean my mouthpieces - totally unnecessary because a small section of paper towel or napkin works just as well. Even so, such a brush would never scratch or damage the mouthpiece.

As for using a wire brush, that's just stupid.

 

[milandro]

this is the same irrational reasoning normally applied to clarinets. They, supposedly, blow out, so need replacing every so often. ( all myths are always based on something that appeals to the mind , of course the more you blow and clean the more it wears out right? Well since Vandoren says that have they conducted an independant research to SHOW this on average? Since they sell mouthpieces you would expect that.... )

Unless you are using some incredible force to clean them with a steel brush ( unlikely) there is nothing (certainly not the air that passes through either a clarinet or a saxophone mouthpiece ) that would wear or blow out either one.

There has been speculation of a very remote possibility that reeds would affect tip and rails of a HR mouthpiece over decades but is that ever been tested? How does that affect a brass piece?

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?41808-Blow-out

I suppose the people who benefit the most are the sellers ?

Vandoren STILL says this

https://vandoren.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Vandoren-Magazine-2-English.pdf

Constant use of a mouthpiece leads to: - corrosion or clogging up by saliva,
- friction between the reed and ligature, - wear-and-tear, even distortions that are sometimes invisible to the eye, caused by pressure from the mouth.
If the mouthpiece is not changed in time, the inconveniences multiply, creating: - difficulties in finding suitable reeds,
- difficulties in adapting to a new mouthpiece (the mouthpiece should not be "fixed" at any cost!).


LostConn in a 2015 wrote this (apparently written by Vandoren's importers in the US)

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...e-According-to-Vandoren-you-re-doing-it-wrong

"...

They both wear out.

Many people think that clarinet and saxophone mouthpieces will last forever. You pick one and keep using it until you stop playing or buy a new instrument. Over time all mouthpieces wear out from everyday playing and cleaning. You know when your mouthpiece begins to wear because you begin to have reed problems, intonation issues and other performance based issues you didn't previously have. They're just like your favorite pair of jeans. You love them, use them as long as you can, and then, alas, they wear out and you have to get new ones. But it's not all bad. Just think how much better you'll sound when you buy a new Vandoren mouthpiece.
Ebonite was discovered as the best replacement to wood for mouthpieces because of its ability to conduct sound waves more accurately than wood. As hard as the substance may seem, the truth is it does wear out. Cleaning your mouthpiece on a regular basis is important for performance and hygiene, but ultimately the friction from cleaning wears down the facing.
n almost all cases, if the performance of your reeds suddenly change, it is the mouthpiece that has changed rendering the relationship between the reed and mouthpiece unplayable.

What are the recommended guidelines?

You should change your mouthpiece every three years at the minimum. It doesn't mean you have to change the type of mouthpiece, but to ensure optimum performance and continued artistic growth you should replace your mouthpiece. "

 

[Sigmund451]

Yep, all these guys playing vintage pieces have no idea what they are doing.

Throw them in the trash...send them to me for recycling.

Most importantl, buy a new Phil-tone at least every three years.

so how long do horns last...six years?

 

[Woody Reed]

There has been speculation of a very remote possibility that reeds would affect tip and rails of a HR mouthpiece over decades but is that ever been tested? How does that affect a brass piece?

Well, I can attest to it happening to my metal pieces. And way quicker then over decades. The wear is visual and also in the way it plays. I had a mouthpiece "go" after 15 years of use. It was silver plate over nickel plate. It "visually" started at the facing break, then the tip rail, then side rails, then inside the tip. By that time the piece was finished for me. It didn't play the same at all. I tried having it refaced, but it never came back. Pretty traumatic experience really. And very expensive. It took me at least 10 pieces to find the one ( and backup) I play now. At $1K a pop, do the math. I actually have 3 or 4 really great Sugals now. I unfortunately let one of the "great" ones go recently. Wish I had it back. They're just so damn expensive to hold on to.

 

[DarrellMass]

Geez..........
Personally, i swab out my piece, with a silk tenor swab, every time I finish using it, and then run warm water through it, to rinse it out. I'm glad I'm only buying $125 pieces!

 

[Sigmund451]

Yes facings can wear but the average player isnt going to impact a piece in three years, especially these days where players own and play different pieces