[tonyg]

Has anyone had the ring at the end of a neck(the end the mpc slides onto) removed so the mouthpiece will slide on easier? The neck cork is very thin but the mouthpiece still fits tight.

 

[B Flat]

I’d bore out the mouthpiece before I would touch the neck.
I’ve never come across a piece that wouldn’t fit over the ring on the end of the neck.
Are you sure it is the correct type of piece for the horn.?

 

[tonyg]

Yes, it's a morgan excaliber mouthpiece on a ref 54 alto, the sax tech recommended to remove the ring on the neck but I have never heard of this before.

 

[B Flat]

I certainly wouldn’t do it.
You other option is to slightly enlarge the bore of the Morgan piece.
Or perhaps even contact the Morgan company to let them know the issue you’re having as I’m sure they’d like to know if their pieces don’t fit on a standard Selmer neck.

 

[turf3]

Yes, it's a morgan excaliber mouthpiece on a ref 54 alto, the sax tech recommended to remove the ring on the neck but I have never heard of this before.

Please do not mutilate your $4000 alto in order to fit an incorrectly sized $200 mouthpiece. I would recommend getting an adjustable blade reamer and reaming out the bore of the mouthpiece a few thousandths of an inch.

 

[click]

Please do not mutilate your $4000 alto in order to fit an incorrectly sized $200 mouthpiece. I would recommend getting an adjustable blade reamer and reaming out the bore of the mouthpiece a few thousandths of an inch.

This is a good answer. Please do not ignore it.

Also, consider looking for another tech. With advice like what he gave you, relying on him would make me nervous.
Those ferrules protect the end of a tube that can be deformed or split.
While they are not strictly necessary, keeping that protection there is a good idea, while boring out a mpc is a minor matter.
Your tech should have, at the least, discussed this with you before suggesting that the ferrule ring be removed.

 

[B Flat]

This is a good answer. Please do not ignore it.

Also, consider looking for another tech. With advice like what he gave you, relying on him would make me nervous.
Those ferrules protect the end of a tube that can be deformed or split.
While they are not strictly necessary, keeping that protection there is a good idea, while boring out a mpc is a minor matter.
Your tech should have, at the least, discussed this with you before suggesting that the ferrule ring be removed.

Yes, but the tech likely saw an opportunity to make a few extra dollars.

 

[click]

Yes, but the tech likely saw an opportunity to make a few extra dollars.

ouch

 

[MojoBari]

Over the years, I have had 3 experiences in finding alto sax neck end rings that came off and jammed inside mouthpieces. Two were alto sax Rousseau and one was an alto Warburton. Clients complained that they could not push in enough to tune. I had to grind out the obstruction.

 

[click]

Over the years, I have had 3 experiences in finding alto sax neck end rings that came off and jammed inside mouthpieces. Two were alto sax Rousseau and one was an alto Warburton. Clients complained that they could not push in enough to tune. I had to grind out the obstruction.

Are you saying that the extra protection allegedly provided by the neck ring or ferrule is not worth it, and it should be removed?

Are you saying that if the mpc is too tight one should not force it on, but bore it out?

Are you merely pointing out aspects of a potential problem?

[also, wonder why only alto sax?]

 

[1saxman]

That is wild - imagine the force they used to try to twist and jam the mouthpiece on farther.

If the cork cannot be made thinner, which is the best option, you'll have to enlarge the mouthpiece shank bore. You can make a tool by using a piece of wood dowel about 1/2" in diameter. Super Glue a 1" strip of #200 sandpaper at one end and wrap it around tight. Work it into the shank and twist in the direction to keep the sandpaper tight while pushing it in. Carry the cut all the way to the throat then twist while pulling out. Each time you take it out of the mouthpiece, try it for fit. BTW, never try this on a metal mouthpiece - the shank bore is usually very thin. The Excalibur doesn't have a metal shank, its just a metal band to prevent splitting the mouthpiece when jamming it on a neck.

 

[turf3]

Over the years, I have had 3 experiences in finding alto sax neck end rings that came off and jammed inside mouthpieces. Two were alto sax Rousseau and one was an alto Warburton. Clients complained that they could not push in enough to tune. I had to grind out the obstruction.

Some people are just ham fisted and have no sense of what is "the normal amount of assembly force" and what is "way too tight". I had a roommate like that once, who managed to break off a 1/4" NPT oil pressure sending gauge in the oil gallery of his car. Or, honestly, my wife, who seems to believe that if a control (on anything) moves from one side to the other, the normal way to operate it is to slam it as hard as possible against the stop in each direction, making sure to engage the large muscles of the upper back or thighs to ensure maximum force.

It seems pretty obvious to me that if the bore of the mouthpiece is so small that it won't fit over the brass ring on the end of the neck, the solution is to increase the ID of the mouthpiece, not take off the ring, nor to force the thing on, sweating, cursing, feeling the grinding of metal on plastic, till there's a sudden "snap" and the ring is magically missing from the end of the neck, because it's jammed up inside the mouthpiece.

I expect that phenomenon is worse if you have a piece that is left with the molding draft taper in the bore rather than the manufacturer spending an extra minute's worth of cost to ream it out like they should have done.

 

[click]

Some people are just ham fisted and have no sense of what is "the normal amount of assembly force" and what is "way too tight". I had a roommate like that once, who managed to break off a 1/4" NPT oil pressure sending gauge in the oil gallery of his car. Or, honestly, my wife, who seems to believe that if a control (on anything) moves from one side to the other, the normal way to operate it is to slam it as hard as possible against the stop in each direction, making sure to engage the large muscles of the upper back or thighs to ensure maximum force.

It seems pretty obvious to me that if the bore of the mouthpiece is so small that it won't fit over the brass ring on the end of the neck, the solution is to increase the ID of the mouthpiece, not take off the ring, nor to force the thing on, sweating, cursing, feeling the grinding of metal on plastic, till there's a sudden "snap" and the ring is magically missing from the end of the neck, because it's jammed up inside the mouthpiece.

I expect that phenomenon is worse if you have a piece that is left with the molding draft taper in the bore rather than the manufacturer spending an extra minute's worth of cost to ream it out like they should have done.

Kinda surprised that the mpc shank did not give way, ala those infamous Tonalins ....

 

[click]

Some people are just ham fisted and have no sense of what is "the normal amount of assembly force" and what is "way too tight". I had a roommate like that once, who managed to break off a 1/4" NPT oil pressure sending gauge in the oil gallery of his car. Or, honestly, my wife, who seems to believe that if a control (on anything) moves from one side to the other, the normal way to operate it is to slam it as hard as possible against the stop in each direction, making sure to engage the large muscles of the upper back or thighs to ensure maximum force.

It seems pretty obvious to me that if the bore of the mouthpiece is so small that it won't fit over the brass ring on the end of the neck, the solution is to increase the ID of the mouthpiece, not take off the ring, nor to force the thing on, sweating, cursing, feeling the grinding of metal on plastic, till there's a sudden "snap" and the ring is magically missing from the end of the neck, because it's jammed up inside the mouthpiece.

I expect that phenomenon is worse if you have a piece that is left with the molding draft taper in the bore rather than the manufacturer spending an extra minute's worth of cost to ream it out like they should have done.

I had a college pal who, I swear, could break an anvil. I have seen him break light switches, knobs of all kinds, and most famously, a car windshield wiper. Something got stuck under the passenger side wiper and I foolishly asked him to clear it. I saw the whole thing. He did exactly what anyone would do, nothing unusual about it that I could see. But then, "snik" .... he was holding the entire arm in his hand with a stunned look on his face. Amazing super power, although not one that was welcomed.

 

[chknbon]

Get some cheap digital calipers from Harbor Freight, Measure the cork & measure the mpc shank i.d. & start sanding the inside of the shank. Keep measuring your work as you go. It's simple. I've done it several times.

 

[turf3]

Get some cheap digital calipers from Harbor Freight, Measure the cork & measure the mpc shank i.d. & start sanding the inside of the shank. Keep measuring your work as you go. It's simple. I've done it several times.

Only problem is that the ID prongs of the calipers only reach in a half inch or so, so you can make the bore all kinds of tapered and you won't be able to tell. I would supplement the calipers with a set of telescoping gauges so you can reach down in there.

The sanding trick is really cheap but not very accurate (you don't need to be very accurate); an adjustable blade reamer will cost a lot more but will give a lot better results.

 

[saxoclese]

My advice would be to get some accurate measurements before doing any type of modification. I would even measure the shank diameters of several other mouthpieces to compare. You might find the ferrule is not what is causing the "tightness" of the fit after all. Be sure to check to see if the the cork itself is cylindrical and not tapered. That alone could produce a tight fit when the mouthpiece is pushed further onto the cork.

 

[turf3]

My advice would be to get some accurate measurements before doing any type of modification. I would even measure the shank diameters of several other mouthpieces to compare. You might find the ferrule is not what is causing the "tightness" of the fit after all. Be sure to check to see if the the cork itself is cylindrical and not tapered. That alone could produce a tight fit when the mouthpiece is pushed further onto the cork.

Yes, I agree 110%. We leapt to the solution without confirming the problem.

Honestly I don't know how I would be able to manage without a 6" vernier caliper. (Dial or digital are good too, but the vernier never goes out of adjustment, needs a battery, and if you drop it in a liquid you just wipe it off.)

 

[Canadiain]

My Excaliburs fits my Tenor and Alto necks just fine (and are great pieces!) If you really cant thin the cork I'd just takes some emery paper, roll it into a tube and open out the shank of the mouthpiece a little. Wont hurt any. Just sand till it goes on. The Excalibur has a reinforcing metal ring in any case. Done this before in order to get pieces close enough that I could swap them onto the same neck. As the neck itself is filling the shank of the pieces there is no way I can see it would affect anything except the convenience factor.

Excaliburs are small pieces, almost Alto sized in your mouth on Tenor, and clarinet sized on Alto, but that shouldn't pass on to the bore size.

 

[Dr G]

Yes, I agree 110%. We leapt to the solution without confirming the problem.

Honestly I don't know how I would be able to manage without a 6" vernier caliper. (Dial or digital are good too, but the vernier never goes out of adjustment, needs a battery, and if you drop it in a liquid you just wipe it off.)

Check also that the taper (and depth) inside the mouthpiece isn't wrong. It happens. Check with a go/no-go gauge such as a drill bit or dowel of the "correct" diameter.