[10mfan]

I think this will be an interesting read.

I dont understand why its been discussed like its a black or white issue, when i see lots of gray.


I hear this alot as if these are the only combos---- like its set in stone:

1. I like an open mouthpiece, so I use soft reeds.
2. I like a closed tip opening mouthpiece, so I use heavy reeds
3. I like medium tip opening mouthpieces with medium strength reeds.



I'm wondering if you see this set up issue like its a "one way or the other" choice?



I certainly dont...I always let the mouthpiece dictate reed strength, and I am personally drawn to a smaller tip mouthpiece that allows me to use a softer reed.

This is a combination that I never hear discussed. I was talking with a friend today, and he said he liked that too....so it made me want to post this.

I have a 4* slant sig tenor mpc (.075) that I use #2 1/2 reeds on, and the reeds never shut down, and it allows me lots of versatility. I use a .075 alto mpc with a #2 reed, and I have the same feelings with that. This is the combo I love best----- the mpc's that have smaller tip openings, which prefer soft reeds.

Of course I have had many small tip mpc's that prefer and dictate a med-hard or hard reed set up--but I gravitate to smaller tip/softer reed set ups.

I remember when Garzone used a 12 tip Link and a #5 reed, and everyone thought he was nuts.


I'd love to hear your thoughts on reed size and tip openings of mouthpieces, and why you prefer a certain combination, (if you do), and if you've fallen into the trap of letting one of those 3 choices I listed above, dictate your set up.

 

[82zguy]

I have c*. I dont know what the opening is on it, perhaps other will know, but I love to use harder reeds on it, around 3.5 to 4 when i use my vandoren blue box reeds

 

[PridgNYC]

Meyer 5m, using Vandoren ZZ 2.5's. Will soon be experimenting with Rico Jazz Selects, not sure what strength to go with. Will probably start with 2.5 and 3's, or maybe start with the 3's and if I have to soften them then pick up a box of 2.5's, we'll see.

 

[dha]

After experimenting for years I know what works for me. I like an open mouthpiece, hard rubber 7* on tenor with a #2 Hard Rigotti reed or Vandoren #2 reed and I work on the reed almost always. I have tried slightly smaller tips but with the way I blow, I need to have that extra resistance and a .105 makes me work a little harder which I like. I never went in this direction because of the above generalizations but ended up with this setup through experimenting and playing. Soprano I like small tips, hard rubber and dark...also 2-2.5 reeds. I sometimes use a harder reed but work the reed till it speaks easily.

 

[Honeyboy]

I use 2.5 Vandoren Javas on all my good mouthpieces- a 130/2 Berg (actual size is .124), a 110 M2 Ponzol, a 7* STM Link, and a .100 Brilhart Tonalin 7*. Some 2.5's are easier to blow than others- the harder ones go with the smaller tips, and the softer ones go with the Berg. The Berg was refinished by Mojo and has a flat table and correct curve, so it plays well and as easily as the smaller tipped mouthpieces.

 

[Agent27]

I always let the mouthpiece dictate reed strength

This pretty much sums it up. I can't play on multiple reed strengths. There's a sweet spot for me as far as strength goes. Go up a strength and it's too hard to blow, go down a strength and it just sounds awful to me plus intonation in the upper register suffers. So I just play whatever strength puts me in that zone. Generally, I like to play somewhere in the 3's. I currently play 3H RJS or Rigotti 3 1/2 medium but ultimately it doesn't matter to me whether the reeds are hard or soft just as long as they sound good on my mouthpiece.

I've never really experimented with different tip openings so I just stick to the most popular tips. .105 (sometimes .100) on tenor and .080 on alto. When I was younger, I did play a Runyon Quantum 10 (I think), a Berg 130/0 SMS (wanted to emulate Lenny), and a Guardala LT Super King R&B (which was advertised as .145 but I think was actually closer to .125). But I stopped with the large tip thing and gravitated to a more standard opening and stayed there.

There have been a few times when my air support suddenly increased and found myself playing 4S or 4M RJS and it made me scared that I was going to run out of reed and had me thinking that I should move up to a .110 or .115 tip to counter that but those turned out to be temporary worries and I ended up settling back down in the mid to high 3's.

 

[BigHunk]

after afew years of trying different set-ups on tenor I now play a .110 tip and #3 reeds.IF im playing live R&B I wil play a 3 1/2 plasticover... .090 on Alto with 2 1/2 and .072 on Sop with 2 1/2

 

[hakukani]

I just know what works for me. I've never been much for listening to others about my sound--at least since I've been a grown up. (that means after college). I always played on relatively small tips on tenor, and always hated my sound--with good reason! It just wouldn't open up for me--that is, until I started playing 115-120 range tips. Alto I'm much more flexible. I have an RPC that I played for awhile that Matt Stohrer measured at .067, even though it was marked as a 90--and I just played the thing, and enjoyed the ease and brightness of the sound. This after I'd been playing slant 6* on alto, not knowing that this was considered a 'wide' tip.

Now I play a 6 on sop, a .092 meyer on alto, a Tenney link .120 on tenor , and a .115 RPC on bari. It's about a balance of sound and comfort for me, all with a nominal 2 1/2 to 3 reed.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on reed size and tip openings of mouthpieces, and why you prefer a certain combination,

The "why" will be the hardest question to answer. I don't think many people will follow the formula:

1. I like an open mouthpiece, so I use soft reeds.
2. I like a closed tip opening mouthpiece, so I use heavy reeds
3. I like medium tip opening mouthpieces with medium strength reeds.

Purely because it's "supposed" to be the way things are. People just gradually gravitate towards what works. Any formula would come after that I would think.

In other words somebody using a very wide tip doesn''t say to themselves "I must use a soft reed" because I'm supposed to.

I happen to be happy to use 2.5 reeds on a soprano .065 facing, however a while back I picked the wrong mouthpiece out of my drawer and played that for a while without realising it was a .047 (C*) for quite a long time. But that may be due to the fact that I take in a lot of mouthpiece.

So I know I can sometimes play totally different combinations, if I feel a different resistance I adjust.

Having said that I have spent time training myself to be able to use softer reeds, not so easy after getting used to playing very hard reeds like I used to do in the old days.

 

[Atonal]

1. I like an open mouthpiece, so I use soft reeds.
2. I like a closed tip opening mouthpiece, so I use heavy reeds
3. I like medium tip opening mouthpieces with medium strength reeds.

The above formula is a good, common sense place to start when trying out a new piece with a significantly different tip opening from one's main piece. However, eventually the piece and its design elements will dictate for the individual player which reed cut/strength works best.

Reed choice is so personal. I'm fascinated by the different combinations that people use. I tend to fall into the medium tip/medium reed strength category on all of my horns, just because that's what works best for me and the mouthpieces I use. However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if other players on similar setups used harder or softer reeds with success.

 

[RS]

In general I like open pieces (especially on bari) with medium (3-3.5) reeds. I like to play hard and don't mind working up a sweat.

 

[whaler]

In general I like open pieces (especially on bari) with medium (3-3.5) reeds. I like to play hard and don't mind working up a sweat.

I always knew there was a reason I didn't like to stand next to bari players.

I'll take the "close mouthpiece, soft reed" over the other extreme any time. I can see the guy now with the #12 mouthpiece, #5 reed now; eyes bulging, veins sticking out on his neck, knuckles dragging the ground.
The misconception of volume over sound always makes me think of the great players I've gotten to hear live like Joe Henderson and Brecker. They didn't really play loud , but when they pointed the bell of the horn at you or in a microphone it was like a laser beam. I would say that both of them tended more to err on the side of playing a reed that was too soft than struggling with a reed that was too hard. You lose a lot of flexibility and waste energy with the "open mouthpiece, hard reed" combo. Bear in mind that you really can't count high baffled mouthpieces as large tip openings until you get up there in the .115s or higher.

 

[RS]

An open piece hard reed combo does not necessarily equate with blasting away full volume all the time. Taste, judgement, and control factor into the equation. Noone has ever complained that I play too loud. But when I need to step on the gas the power is there.

 

[DaveR]

I think this will be an interesting read.

I dont understand why its been discussed like its a black or white issue, when i see lots of gray.

I hear this alot as if these are the only combos---- like its set in stone:

1. I like an open mouthpiece, so I use soft reeds.
2. I like a closed tip opening mouthpiece, so I use heavy reeds
3. I like medium tip opening mouthpieces with medium strength reeds.

I'm wondering if you see this set up issue like its a "one way or the other" choice?

I certainly dont...I always let the mouthpiece dictate reed strength, .........

Quite right, but........I think in reverse to this. I have become very used to the response of certain types and strengths of reeds, namely Java alto & tenor 3-3.5 and Vandoren Blue Box soprano 3.5 (or Java 4). I find that I subconsciously gravitate to mouthpieces that will play well for me with these reeds.

However, it's not a simple story, because for instance my Ted Klum Acoustimax alto 5 (73thou) works well with the same Java reeds as my Vandoren A35 (80thou) which is appreciably more open, and this is the case with many pieces depending on facing length and curve. I would actually rather change my mouthpiece than change the type and strength of reed I use; I've know this for a long time but the thought had never really crystallized until now.

 

[Pete Thomas]

As with all discussions about tip openings, people tend to avoid discussing the other main factor that often affects the issue: facing curve. This can have just as much effect on resistance or whatever it is that makes a player choose a softer or harder reed. Tip openings can mostly only be realistically compared when talking about the same make and model of mouthpiece.

Part of the problem is the opening is readily measurable and definable with one number, but a curve is a much more complicated thing to measure and define.

 

[DaveR]

As with all discussions about tip openings, people tend to avoid discussing the other main factor that often affects the issue: facing curve. This can have just as much effect on resistance or whatever it is that makes a player choose a softer or harder reed. Tip openings can mostly only be realistically compared when talking about the same make and model of mouthpiece.

Part of the problem is the opening is readily measurable and definable with one number, but a curve is a much more complicated thing to measure and define.

Quite so, good post Pete.

 

[10mfan]

As with all discussions about tip openings, people tend to avoid discussing the other main factor that often affects the issue: facing curve. This can have just as much effect on resistance or whatever it is that makes a player choose a softer or harder reed. Tip openings can mostly only be realistically compared when talking about the same make and model of mouthpiece.

Part of the problem is the opening is readily measurable and definable with one number, but a curve is a much more complicated thing to measure and define.

I was waiting for someone to bring up facing curve. That will certainly change the whole feel for us as players.
I prefer a very short curve on alto and a more standard curve on tenor. Again---everyone has a certain curve they like.
I use to use a huge tip opening on alto (around .105), and a very long facing curve. I would take in half the mouthpiece (or so it seemed),...but it was alot of work...and it took me a long time to understand that. Now on alto I dig small tips, short facings, and soft reeds.

No rights or wrongs here. Its nice to discuss things aloud.

 

[Agent27]

I'll take the "close mouthpiece, soft reed" over the other extreme any time. I can see the guy now with the #12 mouthpiece, #5 reed now; eyes bulging, veins sticking out on his neck, knuckles dragging the ground.

If you're struggling, you're doing something wrong. But some guys just have huge lungs and really developed air support. The feeling of resistance they get from a large tip/hard reed setup isn't all that different from the feeling you get on whatever setup you prefer.

I had a teacher who played a .145 tip with 4's. Huge sound but had the control to play as soft as needed and it never looked as if he was exerting any more effort than any other player.

 

[jlima]

As with all discussions about tip openings, people tend to avoid discussing the other main factor that often affects the issue: facing curve. This can have just as much effect on resistance or whatever it is that makes a player choose a softer or harder reed. Tip openings can mostly only be realistically compared when talking about the same make and model of mouthpiece.

Part of the problem is the opening is readily measurable and definable with one number, but a curve is a much more complicated thing to measure and define.

very, very true. I'll give you an example: I have a tenor mouthpiece that was a 0.105 that I had Ted Klum work because, among other things, if was hard to blow smoothly in the low register. Ted found that the facing curve had some issues and he adjusted it. In the process he also brought the tip opening slightly down to 0.104, but the piece now blows as if it was a 0.100-0.102, which I find great. All of this with a F Louis 2.5, or a Rigotti Gold 2.5M reed (a little harder, the latter).

 

[hakukani]

The other thing that folks oftentimes don't think about is that when you play loud, you have a richer (meaning more harmonics present) sound. I've noted many times that an alto played very softly can sound remarkably flute-like. For example, listen to someone on the opening of the 2nd mvt of the Ibert Concertina. If it's done right, the A to G# at pp is a very flute-like sound.