Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Other than reed strength and tip opening size, what are the most important factors that create resistance when playing a mouthpiece?? Also take out the players ability in his amount of air.....what adjustments are usually made first by a mouthpiece maker are refacer??

Thanks,
 

·
Non Resident SOTW Eccentric & 2012 Forum Contribut
Joined
·
3,259 Posts
Length of facing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,144 Posts
I agree w/MFRY. Also, undercutting the window "wall" at the base of the "U" without making it longer.

Flat spots and bumps in the facing and leaks under the table can make it more resistant. Also a crooked facing. But these are not sources of "good resistance". They just make the mouthpiece harder to play IMO.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,264 Posts
Some say that fil marks (like on originale Guardalas) and minitracks in Sugals add speed to the air - and makes the mpc more free blowing. The thickness of side rails and tip rail also infludes on who rasistance/free blowing a mpc is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Mainly facing length (shorter -> more resistance), also baffle profile (generally, higher -> less resistance) and window length (longer -> less resistance) and the specific shape of the facing curve.
What specific facing curves get more and less resistance? I would like to know this as I try to get my own mouthpiece worked on.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,194 Posts
I agree w/MFRY. Also, undercutting the window "wall" at the base of the "U" without making it longer.

Flat spots and bumps in the facing and leaks under the table can make it more resistant. Alao a crooked facing. But these are not sources of "good resistance". They just make the mouthpiece harder to play IMO.
The weird thing is I can think of two mouthpiece that were amazing. They had this resistance that made them really reed picky but they sounded killer when you found the right reed. I had both refaced and the facings were messed up. They came back fixed but then I didn't like their sound anymore...........go figure.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,194 Posts
What specific facing curves get more and less resistance? I would like to know this as I try to get my own mouthpiece worked on.
I don't know if it can be as easy as labeling them. There are probaly thousand of combinations I would guess. There is the length but then there is the rate of curve along that length which can vary.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Mouthpiece Maker
Joined
·
1,816 Posts
What specific facing curves get more and less resistance? I would like to know this as I try to get my own mouthpiece worked on.
Leaving out errors, Longer facings will be less resistant. At the same length, a radial curve should be least resistant, elliptical curves will be more resistant as the eccentricity increases. Curves of more complicated math follow the same principle -- assuming you can approximate any curve as a series of circular sections, areas where those sections have shorter radii will induce more resistance. There is also the break, where the curve meets the table. If this is too abrupt it will introduce bad resistance.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Mouthpiece Maker
Joined
·
1,816 Posts
do I remember correctly that a larger chamber also increases resistance?
I don't think it does. A piece with too large a chamber for a particular player's sound concept might cause him to push the piece harder to get the sound he wants, which could make it seem like it's more resistant, but I don't think there is a great deal of difference in resistance of the common chamber sizes, all else being equal. OTOH, smaller chambers are often accompanied by larger baffles, which do make a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,144 Posts
The weird thing is I can think of two mouthpiece that were amazing. They had this resistance that made them really reed picky but they sounded killer when you found the right reed. I had both refaced and the facings were messed up. They came back fixed but then I didn't like their sound anymore...........go figure.
This does happen occassionally. Sometimes there is a certain mix of irregularities that gives a mouthpiece a certian character that a players like. Resistance in a certain area and perhaps an edgy sound from flat sections. You need to judge whether it is worth putting up with the reed pickiness with these mouthpieces. I think it is a better strategy to find mouthpiece that can do it all for you without being reed picky.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,812 Posts
Am I correct in thinking that less resistance is easier to play but more resistance sounds better? Is it like the difference between a soft and hard reed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
More resistance can sound more controlled, but if you know how to handle it you really want less resistance. It makes both saxophone inflections and acrobatics easier and more fun. Basically, its easier for a mature player to get their personal voice on a less resistant mouthpiece.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,369 Posts
Am I correct in thinking that less resistance is easier to play but more resistance sounds better? Is it like the difference between a soft and hard reed?
I think it really depends on your tone conception and how hard or soft you like to blow. I don't think there's a rule. If my memory serves me right Johnny Griffin played some really soft reeds and Trane or Getz some really hard ones.

Edit : Ben, this could kind of makes sense. Where I'm at right now, the resistance in my mpc serves me as a reminder for using my air right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,144 Posts
What specific facing curves get more and less resistance? I would like to know this as I try to get my own mouthpiece worked on.
If you can view a MS PowerPoint slide presentation, I have one under the clinic area of my site. Near the end I have a slide (#20) of a family of elliptical curves with the same tip opening and facing length. The more curved the elliptical section is, the more resistance it will have. I would suggest trying a ellipse with an aspect ratio of "4" if you think you like a little resistance. Stick with "1" if you like free blowing. On sop sax, an "8" is surprisingly good if the tip is not too open (~.060"). Classical alto and tenor players also like "8"s or so. But there are many variations of tip, length and curve that work for players.

I will add that historically most refacers use tables of numbers of what has worked for them in the past. The practice of using spreadsheets and calculated curves has only gotten popular in the last 5-10 years among the newer refacers who have visited the Yahoo Mouthpiece Work group I set up to exchange ideas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
I think it really depends on your tone conception and how hard or soft you like to blow. I don't think there's a rule. If my memory serves me right Johnny Griffin played some really soft reeds and Trane or Getz some really hard ones.

Edit : Ben, this could kind of makes sense. Where I'm at right now, the resistance in my mpc serves me as a reminder for using my air right.
Well theres a line for everyone where the perfect amount of free blowing/resistance is.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top