[ChuckSax]

I have played a Dukoff D8 forever. I wanted to to try to budget Runyon Custom Spoiler piece, just to get a different sound and see if my mouthpiece has 'ISSUES' as I can't see to stop the squeak thing.

Closest thing I see is WWBW size 10, which I believe is .120 opening, vs. my Dukoff .115. I am not really wanting to go with a bigger opening, although I don't really care if it plays well and isn't ridiculous loud.

WWBW has 7, and then nothing in between 10, which I WOULD get a 9 if they had it. Anyone see any problems I might encounter going slightly larger - I was hoping the Runyon would be 'toned' down a bit from the aggressiveness of my Dukoff. BTW...my Dukoff is about 26 yrs. old.

Buying a 7 would take me down to .90, which seems like a radical change.

I would love some input.

 

[mrpeebee]

Hi Chuck. Going up from 0.115 (8*) to 0.120 (9) is not a big difference IMO. I haven't played a Dukoff or Runyon, but a lot of Links (for Links I didn't find it a big step). Going down to 7 will have much more impact (but you could compensate that with a harder reed). So if you don't have issues with the 8* Dukoff finding it to heavy (and I know you don't, because I heard some great takes of you in the October TOTM thread) than I would go for the Runyon 9. Ofcourse also your current reed strenght and the baffle and chamber size of both pieces play a roll in the decision. With smaller chambers and higher baffles you can handle a bigger tip. Another option could be to ask a good refacer to check (and if required to correct) your Dukoff, because it could be a facing or tip-rail issue.

 

[ChuckSax]

Thanks Peter (Peter?). Glad someone who has heard me responded. The Dukoff feels frankly amazing as far as blowing air goes, but you have heard the little squeaks here and there, and you know what? People tell me it's so damn loud - and I have no intention of being a loud player, LOL. I wanted a similar feel in resistance maybe, and more control, just to see if my current mouthpiece is in need of work - yeah, I have dropped it in the past, and it isn't shiny new - I assume it's in need of some rework.

WWBW doesnt' sell the 9 - which would be .110 - a very slight drop down - which seems optimum. But they do offer the 10, which is .120 a very slight increase in opening. The only thing is, I was just sort of looking to get less aggressive overall in my set up - and now here I go with a 'slightly' larger openeing - which yes I am sure I can handle easily - but dang, was hoping to just tone things down a tad you know?!? I agree the move to a .90 seems too radical. I think the less aggressive baffle will be enough to achieve what I am after.

You know what makes me sick? My wife came home 10 years ago from a garage sale with this aged, but quite beautiful Otto Link Gold metal mouthpiece - that she bought for 10.00 at some garage sale - that's insane I know. I took a look at it, being such a dork, and said, "Ah, it's a Link - they have problems with control and microphones".. I put it in the closet and then I lost the thing!!! I tore the house APART looking for that thing again, and I could kill myself.

Anyway - hoping a new mouthpiece of any kind will show any flaws I may have with my current Dukoff, or if it's just me being a sucky player. No matter how good we are, we ALL suck, just on different levels! :mrgreen:

 

[ChuckSax]

With smaller chambers and higher baffles you can handle a bigger tip. Another option could be to ask a good refacer to check (and if required to correct) your Dukoff, because it could be a facing or tip-rail issue.

See, the Dukoff has a high baffle for certain. I am clueless about the chamber- but it says on the mouthpiece, 'Super Power Chamber' - which frankly means absolutely nothing to me. All I know is Brecker played it, I was 20, so bring on the power baby!!! I have grown up some since then.

So it's a high baffle - ANYONE know of a Runyon Custom would be considered bigger or smaller on chamber size?

 

[MojoBari]

Most Dukoff D8s that I have seen are .105" or smaller. So you may need to get yours measured to determine if it is indeed a .115".

 

[lhoffman]

So it's a high baffle - ANYONE know of a Runyon Custom would be considered bigger or smaller on chamber size?

Dukoffs have smallish chambers. The Customs have medium chambers. As far as the baffle goes, without the spoiler, they are fairly tame. You'll probably find that a Custom is not as free blowing as your Dukoff. Also, bear in mind that Runyon's number system is different from most everyone else's. That 10 probably isn't as big as you think it is.

 

[Sigmund451]

I have a .110 I am refacing for a very fair price given that it has been reworked. It has the spoiler as well. It is blue if anyone cares.

 

[mrpeebee]

Thanks Peter (Peter?). Glad someone who has heard me responded. The Dukoff feels frankly amazing as far as blowing air goes, but you have heard the little squeaks here and there, and you know what? People tell me it's so damn loud - and I have no intention of being a loud player, LOL. I wanted a similar feel in resistance maybe, and more control, just to see if my current mouthpiece is in need of work - yeah, I have dropped it in the past, and it isn't shiny new - I assume it's in need of some rework.

WWBW doesnt' sell the 9 - which would be .110 - a very slight drop down - which seems optimum. But they do offer the 10, which is .120 a very slight increase in opening. The only thing is, I was just sort of looking to get less aggressive overall in my set up - and now here I go with a 'slightly' larger openeing - which yes I am sure I can handle easily - but dang, was hoping to just tone things down a tad you know?!? I agree the move to a .90 seems too radical. I think the less aggressive baffle will be enough to achieve what I am after.

You know what makes me sick? My wife came home 10 years ago from a garage sale with this aged, but quite beautiful Otto Link Gold metal mouthpiece - that she bought for 10.00 at some garage sale - that's insane I know. I took a look at it, being such a dork, and said, "Ah, it's a Link - they have problems with control and microphones".. I put it in the closet and then I lost the thing!!! I tore the house APART looking for that thing again, and I could kill myself.

Anyway - hoping a new mouthpiece of any kind will show any flaws I may have with my current Dukoff, or if it's just me being a sucky player. No matter how good we are, we ALL suck, just on different levels! :mrgreen:

Chuck, the facing numbers I mentioined (8*, 9) are Link numbers. Indeed Dukoff and Runyon have a different scale, see >this< PDF chart of Theo Wanne's site to compare them (as you probably already know).

I understand your issue, because your piece sounds great at parts and less at other parts (the squeaks). A pity you lost that Link, it could have worked for you. I'm also sure you don't suck as a player (that is, not more than any advanced amateur :bluewink.

So, can't you go to a shop to play-test some pieces around a 0.110 tip? It's anyhow the best to always play-test a piece before buying. And watch out for mouthpiece GAS my friend :bluewink:.

Peter.

 

[Bozman]

The chart from Theo's site is incorrect as far as the Runyon openings go. The Runyons are much smaller for a given number than just about any other mouthpiece. A Runyon 10 is only .103. You'd have to go all the way to a 13 to get to .114. It is hard to get Runyon pieces bigger than a 10 except by ordering them directly from Runyon. Much more expensive and cannot be returned.

You may want to try the SR Tech Fusion 115 or the Guardala MBII or Studio.

 

[MojoBari]

I agree. Also I would say that a Runyon Smoothbore or XL would compare well to a Dukoff D if you matched the tip openings. But I think the Runyon Quantum is a better design. The SR Tech and MB2 are also good and have better facings on them out of the box.

 

[super20dan]

mojo is right the quantum is the best of the runyon tenors-more versatile than the custom whichisnt a powerhouse and dosnt have enough power for amped music. get the quantum

 

[BOPITY FUNK]

Not wishing to upset anyone but IMO Runyons are very average to poor and over-hyped--perhaps the metal ones are better?

 

[MartinMusicMan]

I'm a broken record on this subject, but why not try a Metalite M9? It'll only cost you around $25 to find out what it's like. I have a Runyon Custom with a spoiler for tenor which is my backup (without the spoiler in it). I have a Dukoff 6 for alto. I just got the alto and I've ordered a Metalite for it. That means I will have Metalites for SATB.

Saxplus says the Runyon Custom 10 is .103 tip opening. http://www.saxplus.com/runyon-custom-mouthpieces.html

Edit: the tenor Metalite M9 tip opening is supposed to be .115.

 

[skeller047]

I own 3 Graftonites and a Metalite. The facing curves on these pieces are remarkably good, and consistent from piece to piece. They cannot be beat, especially for such an inexpensive mouthpiece. The Metalite M9 which I have measures exactly .115" at the tip.

Amazon has these for $20.99. This is one of those things that can really be bought online because a) it's so inexpensive and b) you can be reasonably confident that the piece will be made well. This is in marked contrast to other mouthpieces for which you need a) more money and b) a trial period or a local music store with a large inventory.

I just wish more mouthpiece manufacturers could apply Rico's manufacturing techniques and quality control.

 

[MartinMusicMan]

Woodwind&Brasswind has them for the same price and free shipping.

If you need a lig to fit, Kessler has a nice package with a Metalite + Rico H lig and cap for $35 (add shipping).

 

[jazzznbluezzz]

The little squeaks could also be caused by a bad ligature sealing.
I have experienced the same issues with a Berg Larsen steel mouthpiece.
After I changed the ligature for another one (a vintage one, probably better made)
the squeaks were gone.

I would also recommend a Metalite for experimenting before spending a lot of cash.
You might be suprised.

 

[ChuckSax]

Guys - thanks for all the replies so much. I did get the Custom Hard Rubber with spoiler, but play with it out, except for the recent big band gig I did. I plan to check out some other mouthpieces you guys have posted here, a lot of food for thought.

I will say, my poor Dukoff was certainly damaged somehow - verified immediately when I got the 75.00 Runyon - playing is 3x easier, altissimo is now totally accessible - and squeaks are GONE. And Peter noticed the Dukoff was losing it's focus and ring in the upper register. I couldn't hear or feel it until I got this new piece, now it's painfully obvious.

Thanks for all your help.

I met a guy at a gig that had a beautiful gold Jody Jazz mouthpiece that he doesn't use as him main piece. He is going to let me try it out soon. The price on those are absolutely ludicrous at 550+ dollars - OMG - is it really worth it? So far loving this Runyon - but I do kinda miss the Dukoff edge, just not the wrestling matches with it, LOL.

 

[super20dan]

yes the custom for tenor is good for big band but the quantum is the bomb for tenor sax. has the edge when needed and blows super easy and blends well . lush ballads-this mpc does it all for tenor. santys best desighn .