Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Eh, i just recently bought a 1951 toneking in great shape and as a beginner i was having problems with the mouthpiece and was told by my techie that it wasn't the greatest mouthpiece and that maybe i should get your typical student mouthpiece (Selmer C*), so i did that but it didn't seem to be any better and then i just read somewhere that vintage horns don't always respond well to these newer mouthpieces...... :( .... does anyone know if this is the case with this particular sax?? And if so, which would be the right mouthpiece for it?? Of course it could just be me too ;)

thanks.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
Joined
·
3,314 Posts
Depends on your problems- are they intonation problems? Is the low end sharp and the high end flat? If so, get something a bit shorter in length and larger in chamber and that should help.

If I didn't guess right, let us know what the specific problems you are having with the mouthpiece (or maybe horn...) are and maybe we can help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for answering me. ja sorry i was unclear, well if i practice blowing with only the neck i'm fine, its easy, the sound is good and i get a more or less good A. but as soon as the horn is attached i can't get the low notes to play very easily(goes right into altissimo), and when i finally get it i get squeeks and whistles halfway thru a scale. With the original mouthpiece i never had that problem. The only problem was that the tip opening was a bit large (at least i think) so i had a hard time and had to pinch hard with my mouth to make it play, but i never go those squeeks and whistles nor that problem of going off into altissimo which drives me crazy! I've used reeds vandoren 1 1/2 and 2's, doesn't seem to make that much difference. I will keep working on it with this Selmer mouthpiece and see if it will change but i just wondered if maybe it's not a good combination with this particular sax.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2007 Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
820 Posts
I would say a large chamber would suit this horn best overall. Link HR maybe. Tip opening no larger than a 5* max. try increasing reed strength slightly, 2 1/2 or so working up to maybe a 3 over time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
yingski said:
Eh, i just recently bought a 1951 toneking in great shape and as a beginner i was having problems with the mouthpiece and was told by my techie that it wasn't the greatest mouthpiece and that maybe i should get your typical student mouthpiece (Selmer C*), so i did that but it didn't seem to be any better and then i just read somewhere that vintage horns don't always respond well to these newer mouthpieces...... :( .... does anyone know if this is the case with this particular sax?? And if so, which would be the right mouthpiece for it?? Of course it could just be me too ;)

thanks.
Hi

Nice choice of sax

I would say that Yes, the choice of mouthpiece makes a big difference

I play a '62 New King Tenor which I bought second hand with three different mouthpieces. One is a Berg Larsen 100 / 1 metal, the other two I think are Keilwerth - the only markings they carry are a "4" and a "5". The five being slightly longer than the four

The number four I hardly use - it gives a very "stuffy" high D.
The five is sweet and smooth
and the Berg Larsen very bright and forward - as you would expect

The choice of reed is also significant, but to a lesser extent - the Berg Larsen prefers a Fibracell about half or a full size softer than the Vandoren's I use with the others

If your new toy is a tenor, I would happily lend you the number 4 to try - I really dont use it.

I would suggest you try as many mouthpieces as you can - something out there is bound to suit you.

Hope this helps

Jim

=mjc=
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Wow thanks for the offer. I have an alt sax though. I think i just have to keep trying with this Selmer C* for now. Oh and i did notice a tiny number on the JK mouthpiece AFTER i bought the Selmer (!) it's a little 4, so i guess it's a mouthpiece #4. And both of these mouthpieces have a sort of "stuffy" sound and also gives me a "leaky" feeling like i'm trying to blow up a balloon with a little hole in it. Occassionally it sounds good and then i lose it again. I'll give it a few months and then maybe try something else. And yes the sax is really really nice :) thanks for the replies.

Y
 

·
Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
Joined
·
3,314 Posts
Honestly to me your problems sound like either the horn is leaking or you have embouchure problems. A C* will work fine on that horn, but just maybe not as well in tune as a larger chamber piece- the problems you are described are IMHO coming from somewhere else- take it to another tech for a second opinion (assuming your tech insists it is fine) and get a private teacher. If you already have a private teacher, go over sound production with him, have him try your horn, you try his horn, and maybe also just to be extra sure take another lesson with another private teacher.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Yes that had occured to me, the sax was revised a week ago (new pads etc.) and the guy told me that i was to play it and then come back in 3 weeks time and he would re-check everything because as the pads settle they could start to leak a bit and he likes to make sure it's good. Is that normal procedure? Anyway i thought it was not a good thing to just blame the horn ;) so i will just keep playing for this 2 weeks and then see what he says.
I don't have a teacher yet because the block of courses i was going to follow don't start until october.... i'm not sure if that is enough time for me to totally screw myself up first.... but i find it hard to go and ask someone to just give me 3 lessons and then wave bye bye.

Y
 

·
Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
Joined
·
3,314 Posts
My bet is on your embouchure then. I don't know if it will be enough to totally screw yourself up, but I don't think you will be making much headway without them. I think you should get some lessons! You could be much farther along by the time your courses start, and you wouldn't have as many bad habits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I got my problem fixed!!! Well more or less, i figured out that what i was doing wrong, at least partly, was i wasn't pressing hard enough with my fingers. I guess it was ok at first but after a while i needed to press harder to seal the pads well and i wasn't doing that. I'm actually a guitar player and so i'm used to only using JUST enough power when pressing. Anyway i seen to be well underway now, now that i don't have that problem i don't mess around so much with the embouchure and it seems all to be working well. Lets hope i'll be ok until my course starts! Thanks for the support.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2007 Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
820 Posts
If you are having to press hard to seal the pads they are probably leaking. A sax should seal with light to moderate pressure. Have a tech look at it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
yingski said:
Oh and i did notice a tiny number on the JK mouthpiece AFTER i bought the Selmer (!) it's a little 4, so i guess it's a mouthpiece #4.
Yup, that sounds like a JK #4 alright.

I definately get a better sound with a #5

Its a bit longer than the #4, and as others have suggested here, a larger chamber seems to help.

Hope you've sorted your issues with keying and that your tech did a proper job on the pads and any leaks that is.

I'd also strongly encourage you to find a teacher, you'll play better sooner and have more fun.

Cheers

Jim
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,406 Posts
I have a few new old stock (unmodified) Keilwerth Toneking and Toneking Special mouthpieces and my observation is that the facings on these are very very consistently flat - not much curvature at all. The hard rubber of these pieces is an outstanding quality, but their facings are not responsive at all. They fix up really well, though. So what you have, in essence, is a piece with potential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
yes i also found the rubber to be of really exceptional quality. I bought a Selmer C* and have been playing with that since a while now and i've gotten used to it. But one of these days i will get the stock mp out again and see if i can play with it. But when you say that it has potential do you mean that i should have it reshaped??
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,406 Posts
Yes - these are much better with a reface.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top