Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member and Forum Contributor 20
Joined
·
1,419 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For the mouthpiece refacers out there, is there any trend that you have seen regarding open tips vs medium tips vs closed tips and the need to have the facing corrected? I guess another way of putting it is whether a wide or narrow tip opening makes the facing issues more critical?
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,406 Posts
If I was to boil down into one word what refacing a piece provides, it's "versatility". Whether it be volume, expression, reed choice, tone quality.

For example, a poor facing can lock a person into only certain reeds working (usually one as bad as the facing itself so there is balance).

A factor like that then can restrict the palette of tone, volume, etc.

I believe refacing expands one's horizons for a given setup and this applies at all tip openings.

With a hard enough reed and enough air, any piece will play to some degree.
 

·
E-mail address problem
Joined
·
129 Posts
Personally for me I have found that a well faced small tipped mouthpiece can play much more freely and a hell of alot louder than something bigger. I played on a berg larsen 100/2 for a long time hen last year i was given an otto link 6 that had a tip dent. So I sent it to MOJO and now needless to say I can't even play the berg anymore because of how much resistance it has no matter what the reed size.

-mwhaa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,975 Posts
I think the larger the tip opening, the more it needs to be free-blowing (responsive) in order for mere mortals to play it. That is just a fatigue consideration. But many players of all tip openings enjoy playing on a responsive mouthpiece. Some like at least a little resistance. This can be obtained for the type of facing curve used and/or from irregularities in the facing work.

To get a highly responsive mouthpiece requires hand finishing. Some CNC MPs come close, but their facing work can be improved too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,027 Posts
mwhaa said:
Personally for me I have found that a well faced small tipped mouthpiece can play much more freely and a hell of alot louder than something bigger. I played on a berg larsen 100/2 for a long time hen last year i was given an otto link 6 that had a tip dent. So I sent it to MOJO and now needless to say I can't even play the berg anymore because of how much resistance it has no matter what the reed size.

-mwhaa
I play a 6*metal Link (maybe 15 to 20 years old) with a tip dent that plays better than any Link, from any vintage, that I have ever tried. It seems that the table being flat is the most important facet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
I read something once that some of the best players refaced mouthpieces had irregularities. And that these pieces my never be duplicated.I found this to be true when I refaced my Oleg tenor mouthpiece.It's not perfect but it plays great.
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,406 Posts
Right on. I have seen some really odd facings that work. They can be more sensitive to variables in the setup and emb, but they can help deliver some unique character to the sound if the player can learn their way around it. Not sure if the facings are intentionally this way or not, but they sometimes just are what they are without a whole lot of rhyme or reason to them.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
2,892 Posts
mwhaa said:
Personally for me I have found that a well faced small tipped mouthpiece can play much more freely and a hell of alot louder than something bigger. I played on a berg larsen 100/2 for a long time hen last year i was given an otto link 6 that had a tip dent. So I sent it to MOJO and now needless to say I can't even play the berg anymore because of how much resistance it has no matter what the reed size.

-mwhaa
I'm glad that set-up works for you, but your're bucking conventional wisdom.....daryl
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
4,147 Posts
wersax said:
I'm glad that set-up works for you, but your're bucking conventional wisdom.....daryl

If the mouthpiece he can't play is too big he might not be able to get enough are through it to play it loud. Its like slappiong a really hard reed on a mouthpiece. It will be much louder, but only if you have the air/chops for it.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
2,892 Posts
Martinman said:
If the mouthpiece he can't play is too big he might not be able to get enough are through it to play it loud. Its like slappiong a really hard reed on a mouthpiece. It will be much louder, but only if you have the air/chops for it.
That's true, but the post sounds like he plays smaller tip by preference not for some other reason, ("Personally for me I have found that a well faced small tipped mouthpiece can play much more freely and a hell of alot louder than something bigger"). From my experience, most people find mouthpieces that are moderately open---typically 7*'s to 8*'s---are better for loud gigs than smaller openings; for that matter without a high baffle most don't prefer the really open tips, say 9*'s & 10's and up, either. But whatever works for mwhaa is great by me; we're all different.........daryl
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
592 Posts
wersax said:
I'm glad that set-up works for you, but your're bucking conventional wisdom.....daryl
Not meaning to start a debate, but he's bucking what is considered conventional wisdom by only a part of the sax-playing community. But we digress...

I'm not a refacer, but my experience has taught me that what EZ and Mojo both allude to is true: whatever tip opening a player prefers, having the facing professionally applied, and especially matching the length of the facing curve to the both the tip opening and chamber design, is essential to getting the most performance from any mouthpiece.
 

·
E-mail address problem
Joined
·
129 Posts
The point I was making was that if the mouthpiece you have has a good enough facing even if it is a small tip opening it can play just as loud as something more open that plays with more resistance.

-mwhaa
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member and Forum Contributor 20
Joined
·
1,419 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
One of the reasons I asked was that most of the pieces I see for sale refaced seem to be more open tips - at least from medium to wide open. I seldom see closed tips offered on the resale market.

It could also be that medium to open tips are more popular and the owners are making their tenor STM 5's more marketable.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
2,892 Posts
mlscnr said:
Not meaning to start a debate, but he's bucking what is considered conventional wisdom by only a part of the sax-playing community. But we digress...

I'm not a refacer, but my experience has taught me that what EZ and Mojo both allude to is true: whatever tip opening a player prefers, having the facing professionally applied, and especially matching the length of the facing curve to the both the tip opening and chamber design, is essential to getting the most performance from any mouthpiece.
I wasn't meaning to start anything either; it's just that I've found that most people who play loud gigs, (unmic'd sections, rock bands, variety bands, etc.), use more open pieces because more closed pieces don't work for them. The majority, not everyone. And you're right this is a not a cross-section of the sax community.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,025 Posts
wersax said:
I wasn't meaning to start anything either; it's just that I've found that most people who play loud gigs, (unmic'd sections, rock bands, variety bands, etc.), use more open pieces because more closed pieces don't work for them. The majority, not everyone. And you're right this is a not a cross-section of the sax community.
Those sort of loud gigs also require a lot of flexibility in pitch which isn't very easy on a close faced mouthpiece.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
592 Posts
Fred said:
One of the reasons I asked was that most of the pieces I see for sale refaced seem to be more open tips - at least from medium to wide open. I seldom see closed tips offered on the resale market.
It's probably true that more refaced mpcs get opened up than closed down for a number of reasons that I don't feel like listing on a Friday afternoon. So if you're seeing more "refaced: opened" mpcs for resale, it's simply because there's more of them to begin with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts
I would like to ask a question, which will expose my ignorance on mouthpieces, facings, refacing and so on. I play a stock (unmodified) Meyer 10M hard rubber mouthpiece on my Alto VI. In case it matters, I use LaVoz medium reeds.

Does the "10" refer to the facing, and is that a way of expressing the distance from the tip of my reed to the tip of the mouthpiece, when the mouthpiece+reed is not in my mouth?

And does the "M" refer to the bore size in the middle area of the mouthpiece?

Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
592 Posts
<edited to correct myself>
The 10 refers to the tip opening, which is the gap between the tip of the reed and the tip of the mouthpiece, with the reed at rest. For Meyers, the "M" refers to the facing length, which is medium.

The various mouthpiece makers use various markings to distringuish their models, but basically the numbering systems refer to the tip opening.

Visit the JJ Babbitt website (makers of Meyers and Otto Links, and others) for more info. www.jjbabbitt.com

Here's the page specifically for Meyers: http://www.jjbabbitt.com/mey_cmto.htm
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
592 Posts
Reading the info on the Meyer web page, then looking at some pictures on ebay, it looks like you're right.

So scratch what I said earlier. Looks like the M refers to the facing length (how long the curve is from tip to where the reed contacts the side rails). They stamp the chamber size on the shank of the mpc.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top