[PipeTobacco]

I have been doing some exploring both here in SOTW and other places on the Internet, but have had only limited success in finding the information I am seeking. So, I do apologize if I missed it somewhere here on SOTW:

I am trying to better understand the various number and letter combinations used to describe mouthpieces. (4C for instance). I have found a chart that suggests lower numbers are associated with sound that is more suited for “orchestral” work (presumably to bend in better) and higher numbers are associated with more “bright” and “distinctive” sound (presuming for solo work, etc.). But, I am not sure if the above is the complete picture in regards to the number designation..... and I have not yet found any references to letter designations and their meaning.

So, I guess I am hoping someone (or many of you) here can perhaps guide me either where to look or guide me with your knowledge and/or opinions on how to understand these classifications in mouthpieces. Like how is a 4C different from a 7B and how does it affect/shape a person’s sound and playing.

Thank you for any advice you may be able to provide!

PipeTobacco

 

[Benjamin Allen]

I believe you are discussing mouthpiece tip openings. Mouthpiece tip openings have an incredibly broad range, but they all refer to the the distance between the tip rail and mouthpiece table. Tip openings help determine (are one element in such) the resistance of a given piece. Excluding facing curve factors, more open mouthpieces require greater air flow to initiate reed oscillation. They are not a factor in brighter or darker. I hope more people chime in because I don't have time right now to write the length of a response your questions requires.

 

[1saxman]

Mouthpiece markings among makers have no correlation. '4' is the tip opening FOR THAT MANUFACTURER. 'B' is probably the 'chamber' size or in some cases it can mean facing length. Other makers might use a * (star) after the number and it can mean either a short facing or a half-size larger tip opening. Berg Larsen uses the actual tip opening in inches (100 = 0.100"), a 1, 2, or 3 for chamber size and M or SMS for facing length. This is the most scientific system used by any maker.
So what you ask is basically impossible except for a particular brand/model or in the most general sense. For example, I have never understood the Lawton marking system; like what is a 7*BB? Maybe 7 1/2, short facing, B chamber? And how would that play? You see the problem? Plus, 10 players playing the same mouthpiece will all sound different on it and there will be 10 different opinions.

 

[skeller047]

For general information and to compare mouthpiece tip openings between brands, the best source is probably Theo Wanne's site: https://theowanne.com/knowledge/saxophone-mouthpiece-tip-opening-charts/. But tip opening, as Mr. Allen so eloquently states, is only a small part of the story. Theo's site also has some information about baffles and chambers, but it is naturally slanted a bit toward his own mouthpieces.

In general the higher, longer step baffle pieces (Dukoff, Berg Larsen, etc.) have a "brighter" sound, and mouthpieces with a rollover baffle are "darker". But like all generalizations, there are exceptions. A high rollover can really be bright, and a long low step baffle can be quite dark. Chamber size and shape also play a big role.

All of the discussions you will see about these factors make the assumption that other factors are held equal - for example, for a given tip opening and facing curve, a high step baffle piece will be brighter than a low rollover baffle piece. But these factors all work together, and the interactions can be quite complex. This is what makes mouthpiece making an art.

Almost all manufacturers use the tip opening as the primary, if not the only, characteristic to distinguish mouthpieces. All have their own system, as has been noted. But I have played small opening pieces that are incredibly resistant and stuffy and very large opening pieces that are very free-blowing and flexible. And vice versa. Obviously the tip opening is not the whole story.

Good luck in your search for information, but the best way to get a handle on this is to play a lot of different mouthpieces. And that is very difficult to do these days, and probably impossible during the lockdown/social distancing era.

 

[awholley]

There are many charts like this one that attempt to show the comparative tip openings of various saxophone mouthpieces. As has been stated, it's just one aspect of what goes into a mouthpiece's overall playing characteristics. This will at least give you an idea of what some of the various manufacturers facing designations mean and how they relate to each other within and across brands.

https://jodyjazz.com/facing-page/alto-sax-mouthpiece-facing-chart/

Alan

 

[Dr G]

Try this FAQ page: http://www.mojomouthpiecework.com/FAQ/tabid/55/Default.aspx