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More information on my Grandfathers Couesnon Sax

13K views 24 replies 8 participants last post by  Valdir.Oliveira 
#1 ·
Hi,
Just wondered if anyone had any more information on my Grandfathers old Sax.
It has the following inscribed on it:
"Exposition Universelle De Paris 1900"
"Hors Concours"
"Membre Du Jury"
"Couesnon @ CIE"
Fournisseurs de L'armee
9ARue D'Angouleme
There is the #27 in a pineapple shape.
4734


I would really appreciate any information, approximate date or history.

Thanks,

Gary.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hello. More photos would help, this way we can give you an era based on the physical attributes of the sax.

There is not much serial # info on Couesnon online (at least not based on a quick search I just did) but I did find this, although relating to brass instruments they made:


which may or may not be of use....

then this thread here on this Forum:


which isn't concluding much other than 4-digit saxes seem to be from the 50's and earlier and 5-digit ones in the vicinity of 15,XXX seem late 60's...BUR for sopranos possibly not much help/holding true.... as in that thread a user mentions a soprano, clearly archaic (keyed to Eb and down to B only...with a serial # higher than someone else who has determined their alto to be from the 50's.
 
#3 ·
The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris
 
#4 ·
The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris
Ahhhh...very good, thanks for that... 👌👍...I learned something, and indeed your comment is reflected in the brass serial list which I linked to above....

Makes me wanna see a full pic even more.....if it is High Pitch.... or if it is only keyed up to Eb and/or down to B....its value is primarily personal, as opposed to market or historical...
 
#5 ·
I have a baritone and two alto Couesnons of that era. One is a very nice gold plated 'Super Monopole' and all are LP and standard keys (Bb to F). HP ones do exist, however.
 
#11 ·
Just for comparison, I own a 1934 catalogue (sadly not as ornate as the 1912 one)

In this, there are 4 grades of Saxophone
Series A, Series B, Series C Monopole and Series Monopole Conservatoire

Series A
Bis Bb
Forked Bb (long Bb xoo/xoo)
Side Bb
Side C
Ebony mouthpiece

Series B
All above plus
Automatic octave
Mother of pearl keys
Low Bb
4 rollers on keys
Ebony Mouthpiece

C Monopole
All above plus
Articulated G#
Right F# trill key
Front F key
A fifth roller on left side
Ebonite mouthpiece

Monopole Conservatoire
All above plus
A left little finger lever that closes low Eb (I think)
Right side G# trill key
Right side octave trill (I think)
Mother of pearl touch on front F
Ebonite mouthpiece by Mayeur

Unfortunately I don't have a price list

Chris
 
#12 ·
My French is not great either, so here is a picture of the descriptions, and the diagram that goes with it. Happy to be corrected!

4769


4770
 
#13 ·
My French is not great either, so here is a picture of the descriptions, and the diagram that goes with it. Happy to be corrected!
It's always cool to see original diagrams or catalogs. What a great post. I think the notation next to the curved sopranos says. Sibling of alto. I can just imagine these beautiful machines 100 years ago.
 
#17 ·
Wow - thanks for all the great information & welcome!
I found your forum using Google & was amazed at the amount of information.
Yes, I believe it is a Soprano - I will try to get some more photos (it is with my cousin).
Is there an easy way to tell if it is a high pitch?
Will it appear in the 1912 or 1934 catalogs that have been mentioned?
Chris, you mentioned that there are there are 4 grades of Saxophone in the 1934 catalog - is my Grandfathers one of these?
I didn't know about Gautrot - do you know what the "M" in the logo stands for?
In searching for Gautrot I found this interesting:
"Coueson & Cie was a firm of French instrument makers which flourished in Paris from 1883 to 1950 and specialized in brass instruments.The well-established Gautrot company (A.G. Guichard started in business in 1827. He was joined by his brother in law, P.L. Gautrot in 1835) was taken over by Pierre Gautrot's son-in-law Amédée Couesnon (1850-1951) and thereafter the company was named Couesnon, Gautrot & Cie; in 1888, shortened to Couesnon & Cie."
Cheers,
Gary.
Perth, Australia.
 
#22 ·
I don’t know how they were categorised in the 1920s, but if comparing the sax to the 1934 catalogue, it would be Series A.
 
#24 ·
Looks very clean. The case definitely looks non original. Hardware may be orginal. The exposed handle nuts on inside make me nervous. Bad for brass. Enjoy playing a old family heirloom. There’s nothing wrong with that.
 
#25 ·
[QUOTE = "Gary1, postagem: 4230007, membro: 135473"]
Oi,
Só me perguntei se alguém tinha mais informações sobre o velho Sax do meu avô.
Tem o seguinte inscrito nele:
"Exposition Universelle De Paris 1900"
"Hors Concours"
"Membre Du Jury"
"Couesnon @ CIE"
Fournisseurs de L'armee
9ARue D'Angouleme
There is the #27 in a pineapple shape.
View attachment 4734

I would really appreciate any information, approximate date or history.

Thanks,

Gary.
[/QUOTE]
boa tarde
Podem me aja
Hi,
Just wondered if anyone had any more information on my Grandfathers old Sax.
It has the following inscribed on it:
"Exposition Universelle De Paris 1900"
"Hors Concours"
"Membre Du Jury"
"Couesnon @ CIE"
Fournisseurs de L'armee
9ARue D'Angouleme
There is the #27 in a pineapple shape.
View attachment 4734

I would really appreciate any information, approximate date or history.

Thanks,

Gary.
me ajudem
 
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